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1 
Q. 
Do you have phone records that would serve 
2 
as evidence of the telephone call between yourself 
3 
and David Markus? 
4 
A. 
I suspect -- he called me, I remember that 
5 
for sure. He called me. 
6 
Q. 
Do you have telephone records that support 
7 
his call to you? 
8 
A. 
I don't know if the telephone records show 
9 
who called you. If they do, probably we do. 
10 
Q. 
On the days that you claim that you met 
11 
with David Markus, do you have journal entries or 
12 
any other diary notation that would -- that would 
13 
serve as evidence of such a meeting? 
14 
A. 
I'll check. I remember where we met. I 
15 
don't remember exactly when. And if I paid for it, 
16 
I may have paid for it by credit card. I'll check. 
17 
I'll be happy to do that. 
18 
Q. 
Did you meet with David Markus before or 
19 
after appearing on the Don Lemon show on January 5, 
20 
2015? 
21 
A. 
I think I met with him before. I think I 
22 
met with him before. I certainly communicated with 
23 
him before. 
24 
Q. 
Was it before your appearance on the Don 
25 
Lemon show when David Markus provided you with 
EFTA01138066

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1 
information that led you to conclude that 
2 
Brad Edwards participated in a major fraud with 
3 
Rothstein? 
4 
A. 
I never said that publicly, of course, on 
5 
Lemon or any of the other shows. So, you're asking 
6 
me a compound question. Was it before I came to 
7 
that conclusion that then contributed to my belief 
8 
that you had worked -- that you had created false 
9 
testimony? It did. 
10 
MR. EDWARDS: What number exhibit are we 
11 
up to? 
12 
COURT REPORTER: Twenty-five. 
13 
MR. EDWARDS: Twenty-five, okay. I'll go 
14 
ahead and mark this transcript from the Don 
15 
Lemon interview as 25. 
16 
(Thereupon, marked as Plaintiff 
17 
Exhibit 25.) 
18 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
19 
Q. 
I'm going to show you the interview and 
20 
particularly the bracketed paragraph. 
21 
A. 
Sure. 
22 
Q. 
Do you see the section that we bracketed 
23 
there? 
24 
A. 
Yeah. Yeah, let me just --
25 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I'm going to 
EFTA01138067

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1 
look over your shoulder. 
2 
THE WITNESS: Sure. 
3 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
4 
Q. 
Is that a statement that you made on 
5 
January 5, 2015? 
6 
A. 
Let me read into the record what I said. 
7 
Q. 
I'm asking right now is that a statement 
8 
that you made? 
9 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Which statement? 
10 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
11 
Q. 
The statement that is bracketed. 
12 
MR. SIMPSON: Can I object? The record 
13 
doesn't reflect what that is, so the answer 
14 
will be misleading. You can't ask about a 
15 
statement that no one knows what it is. 
16 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
17 
Q. 
You can read the statement into the 
18 
record, but right now I'm just asking is that -- is 
19 
that an accurate transcript of your statement that 
20 
you're holding in your hand? 
21 
MR. SIMPSON: Object to the form. 
22 
A. 
Let me respond to that. Yesterday you 
23 
read transcripts, and it turned out you left out 
24 
absolutely critical exculpatory --
25 
MR. EDWARDS: Objection, nonresponsive, 
EFTA01138068

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1 
move to strike. 
2 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Hang on. Motion 
3 
to strike is granted. But here's the issue. 
4 
Let him identify the document first and lay the 
5 
predicate down and then go back into the 
6 
document. I don't want to tell you how to do 
7 
the deposition, but it makes it cleaner. 
8 
So, Brad, please have him identify the 
9 
document first and see what he knows about the 
10 
document and then move forward. 
11 
MR. SIMPSON: I think it's the portion of 
12 
it you're asking about, that's what we're 
13 
trying to identify. 
14 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
15 
Q. 
Sure. Well, the first question has 
16 
nothing do with the document. It is, did you appear 
17 
on the Don Lemon show January 5, 2015? 
18 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: That's an easy 
19 
question. 
20 
A. 
Yes, yes. 
21 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
22 
Q. 
Okay. In that interview -- can you 
23 
identify the transcript that you're holding in your 
24 
hand as a transcript of that interview? 
25 
A. 
It seems like it is, yes. 
EFTA01138069

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1 
Q. 
Okay. And does it seem to accurately have 
2 
transcribed, to the best of your memory, that 
3 
interview that you had with Don Lemon? 
4 
MR. SIMPSON: Object to the form. 
5 
A. 
Yes. 
6 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
7 
Q. 
Can you read for us the portions that are 
8 
bracketed? 
9 
A. 
No, because they're out of context. I 
10 
refuse to do that. That's what happened yesterday, 
11 
and you totally read it out of context. I will read 
12 
it for you in context. 
13 
I will read the question that was asked me 
14 
and I will read the entire answer, but I won't read 
15 
your selected excerpts which mislead everybody in 
16 
this transcript. No, I won't do that. 
17 
Q. 
Okay. 
18 
A. 
Because that would be a lie, and I'm under 
19 
oath. So I'll be happy to read the entire thing. 
20 
MR. SCOTT: Seems like a fair request. 
21 
MR. EDWARDS: If we're going to read 
22 
entire transcripts, not just the defamatory 
23 
remarks, we're going to be here all day. 
24 
A. 
We have time. The truth takes time and in 
25 
full context. 
EFTA01138070

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1 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Okay. 
2 
MR. SIMPSON: Wait for a question, please. 
3 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I believe it's 
4 
fair for the question starting -- the question 
5 
that starts right above the bracketed where 
6 
7 
8 
9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
MR. EDWARDS: Okay. 
14 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: That standpoint 
15 
would provide some level of context. 
16 
A. 
"Don Lemon: So, why are you being 
17 
targeted? As you mentioned the lawyers, why would 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
Mr. Lemon asks, "So why are you being targeted? 
As you mentioned the lawyers, why would someone 
target you, Alan Dershowitz, with these very 
serious allegations?" And then from there 
down, you don't need to read the whole thing, 
but I think you'll get your point across that 
way. 
someone target you, Alan Dershowitz, with these very 
serious allegations?" 
My response: "Well, I fit beautifully 
into the profile because they want to be able to 
challenge the plea agreement, and I was one of the 
lawyers who organized the plea agreement. I got the 
very good deal for Jeffrey Epstein. I plead guilty 
to getting him a good deal. That's my job. And if 
EFTA01138071

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1 
2 
3 
4 
5 
6 
7 
8 
they can find a lawyer who helped draft the 
agreement who was also a criminal having sex, wow, 
that could help them blow up the agreement. So they 
sat down together, the three of them, these two 
sleazy, unprofessional, disbarrable lawyers, Paul 
Cassell, a former federal judge and current 
professor, and another sleazy lawyer from Florida, 
Brad Edwards, whose partner is in jail for 50 years 
9 
to trying to sell Epstein cases fraudulently, they 
10 
sat down together and they said, who would fit into 
11 
this description, a lawyer who knows Epstein who 
12 
helped draft, ha, Dershowitz. So they and the woman 
13 
got together and contrived and made this up." 
14 
That is a truthful statement, and I stand 
15 
by it. 
16 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Okay. 
17 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
18 
Q. 
In January -- on January 5, 2015, when you 
19 
made the statement that Brad Edwards and Paul 
20 
Cassell sat down with the woman together and 
21 
contrived and made this up, had you already spoken 
22 
with David Efron? 
23 
A. 
Yes. 
24 
Q. 
Okay. What is the date when you spoke to 
25 
David Efron? 
EFTA01138072

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1 
A. 
I think he called me the day of the event, 
2 
the day the story was in the newspapers. 
3 
Q. 
Would you have calendar entries or 
4 
telephone records to support the date of that call? 
5 
A. 
I don't know about telephone records. I 
6 
don't have a calendar entry. 
7 
Q. 
Did you meet with David Efron in person or 
8 
only by telephone? 
9 
A. 
I did. I met with him in person. 
10 
Q. 
And what did -- or did David Efron say 
11 
Brad Edwards participated in a major fraud with 
12 
Scott Rothstein? 
13 
A. 
Again, I can only say that he gave me 
14 
facts and statements that led me to that conclusion, 
15 
which I stated in the interview, namely that 
16 
Rothstein had sold Epstein cases, and that Edwards 
17 
was his partner, and that his reputation was not 
18 
good in the community. 
19 
Q. 
Did David Efron provide you with the 
20 
support for his alleged conclusion that 
21 
Brad Edwards' reputation is not good? 
22 
MR. SIMPSON: Object to the form. Do we 
23 
have the continuing objection, sir? 
24 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Yes, continuing 
25 
objection. 
EFTA01138073

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1 
MR. SIMPSON: Thank you. 
2 
A. 
I think he -- I think he either brought me 
3 
or told me about some newspaper articles, which I 
4 
then read and formed my own conclusion. And he 
5 
also --
6 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
7 
Q. 
Which newspaper articles did David Efron 
8 
provide you? 
9 
A. 
I don't remember. But I -- at that point 
10 
in time, I was not reading the local newspapers, and 
11 
apparently there was some large coverage of the 
12 
Rothstein matter. 
13 
I didn't really know about the Rothstein 
14 
matter much at all. But when my accusation 
15 
occurred, I got lots and lots of calls from people 
16 
telling me about the Rothstein matter and giving me 
17 
all kinds of information about it. 
18 
Q. 
Wasn't it within the context of what 
19 
you're now describing the Rothstein matter that Jack 
20 
Scarola attempted to depose you in 2011? 
21 
A. 
I don't recall whether that was the 
22 
Rothstein matter. But I wasn't following it. 
23 
Q. 
When you communicated with Mr. Scarola 
24 
about whether or not you could be subject or would 
25 
be subject to deposition, are you saying that you 
EFTA01138074

69"/ 
1 
had no idea which case -- that the case in which you 
2 
were being asked for deposition? 
3 
A. 
I wasn't following that case. I was only 
4 
interested in the fact that I was being asked to be 
5 
deposed on, A, lawyer-client privileged information 
6 
or, B, facts that weren't true; namely an allegation 
7 
that I had observed young women in the presence of 
8 
Jeffrey Epstein. I didn't focus on the nature of 
9 
the case at all. 
10 
Q. 
So did David Efron provide you with 
11 
newspaper articles about the Rothstein matter or did 
12 
he say Brad Edwards participated in a major fraud 
13 
with Rothstein? 
14 
MR. SIMPSON: Object to the form and --
15 
object to the form. 
16 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I'm not ruling 
17 
on the -- those are -- those are reserved for 
18 
later. But I mean -- you should try to ask one 
19 
question and give him one question at a time 
20 
and break that up. 
21 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
22 
Q. 
Did David Efron do anything more than 
23 
provide you with newspaper articles on the Rothstein 
24 
matter? 
25 
A. 
Yes. 
EFTA01138075

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9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
1 
Q. 
Okay. What specifically did he do in 
2 
addition to providing you with -- do or say in 
3 
addition to providing you with newspaper articles 
4 
about the Rothstein matter? 
5 
A. 
To the best of my recollection, this is a 
6 
year-old conversation, he told me that you were all 
7 
tied up in the Rothstein matter, that this was --
8 
involved your whole firm, that you were a protege of 
his, and that the firm was selling Epstein cases and 
defrauding lots and lots of people. That's the 
general thrust of what he told me. 
Q. 
Just so I'm clear, did he -- are you 
saying he shared with you his conclusion that 
Brad Edwards was involved in the Rothstein fraud? 
MR. SIMPSON: Object to the form. 
A. 
I wouldn't use the term "conclusion." 
17 
That's not the way conversations occur. He gave me 
18 
facts from which I drew my own conclusion. 
19 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
20 
Q. 
Is there anyone else whose name you can 
21 
provide us today in addition to David Markus and 
22 
David Efron that provided you information from which 
23 
you concluded that Brad Edwards participated in a 
24 
major fraud with Rothstein? 
25 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
EFTA01138076

1 
instruction. 
2 
A. 
Yeah, I mean, obviously --
3 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Short of that. 
4 
A. 
-- I'm not the talking about material, 
5 
much of which I got from lawyer-client privileged 
6 
information. But I can't talk about that. 
7 
So I will talk about another person called 
8 
me, I don't remember the date, who had sued you, 
9 
because he said you had --
10 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
11 
Q. 
Wait. We haven't left the Rothstein 
12 
matter yet we're going to move to that --
13 
A. 
He told me about the Rothstein matter. 
14 
Q. 
Oh, really? Okay. 
15 
A. 
Yeah. So he called me and he said, be 
16 
very careful about this sleazy guy Rothstein [sic], 
17 
he was sleazy when he represented me, he helped fake 
18 
evidence, he helped doctor a tape, he was sued, it 
19 
was dismissed on prosecutorial privilege, but not on 
20 
the merits. And he was also involved in the 
21 
Rothstein, and he just gave me also general 
22 
information about the Rothstein matter, which many, 
23 
many people gave me. That -- you are burdened with 
24 
that as part of your reputation, for better or 
25 
worse. 
EFTA01138077

700 
1 
Q. 
I just want the names of the people who 
2 
gave it to you. That's all I'm asking. 
3 
A. 
I don't remember his name, but you would 
4 
know his name, the man who sued you. 
5 
Q. 
Okay. What facts specifically were you 
6 
given or were given to you by David Markus or David 
7 
Efron or anyone else regarding Brad Edwards 
8 
participating in a major fraud with Rothstein? 
9 
A. 
I would like to answer that question. 
10 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
11 
instruction. 
12 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Let me stop for 
13 
a second. You can answer it, but I think we've 
14 
plowed this ground some. So go ahead. 
15 
A. 
Let me answer it. I was told that you 
16 
were his protege, that you were Rothstein's protege. 
17 
That the two of you were essentially joined at the 
18 
hip, or were inseparable. That you had offices near 
19 
each other. That Rothstein didn't do anything 
20 
without conferring with you. That you were "the 
21 
brains of the operation," he was the rainmaker, you 
22 
were the brains of the operation. 
23 
I was told that the case for which he went 
24 
to jail for 50-something years involved Epstein. 
25 
That you had kind of jointly worked on Epstein 
EFTA01138078

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1 
matters. That I was -- let me see what else. 
2 
That's the thrust of it. That was the thrust of it. 
3 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
4 
Q. 
Who told you that Scott Rothstein and 
5 
Brad Edwards were "joined at the hip"? 
6 
A. 
I heard that probably from more than one 
7 
person. 
8 
Q. 
Then give me more than one person's name. 
9 
That's fine. 
10 
A. 
I don't remember specifically who told me 
11 
that, but that certainly came out of my 
12 
conversations with the various lawyers, that you 
13 
were very close. 
14 
Q. 
Were you aware of my deposition being 
15 
taken in Mr. Scarola's office on the subject matter 
16 
of the Jeffrey Epstein suit against me and my 
17 
countersuit that related to the Rothstein matter 
18 
you're referring to? 
19 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
20 
instruction. 
21 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Well, short of 
22 
that objection, I didn't -- I didn't understand 
23 
the question. 
24 
MR. EDWARDS: I'm --
25 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: If you 
EFTA01138079

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1 
understood it, you can answer. But I didn't 
2 
understand the question. 
3 
MR. SIMPSON: Object to the form. Nor did 
4 
I. 
5 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
6 
Q. 
So you testified that you were not really 
7 
aware of the Rothstein matter; is that right? 
8 
A. 
Yes. 
9 
Q. 
And my question is, when my deposition was 
10 
taken in that matter, were you aware of the fact 
11 
that my deposition was taken? 
12 
A. 
I think so. I think I was, yes. 
13 
Q. 
And how were you aware of the fact that my 
14 
deposition was taken? 
15 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
16 
instruction. 
17 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
18 
Q. 
And were you aware of the testimony that I 
19 
provided at that deposition? 
20 
A. 
Not the details of it, certainly. 
21 
Q. 
Weren't you sitting at the table as I 
22 
testified for my deposition? 
23 
A. 
No. 
24 
Q. 
You weren't? 
25 
A. 
I was sitting at the table when you 
EFTA01138080

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1 
testified in your deposition? 
2 
Q. 
No, I'm asking you. 
3 
A. 
I certainly have absolutely no memory of 
4 
that. Where would that have been? When would it 
5 
have been? 
6 
Q. 
Just answer, were you sitting at the 
7 
table? 
a 
A. 
I have no memory of that whatsoever. 
9 
Q. 
Okay. Okay. Who told you that --
10 
A. 
But if I was 
11 
Q. 
Scott Rothstein --
12 
A. 
I would like to see the transcript. 
13 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Hang on a 
14 
second. 
15 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
16 
Q. 
Who told you that Scott Rothstein didn't 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
A. 
That would require going into privilege. 
24 
MR. SCAROLA: We would like a ruling on 
25 
whether there has been a waiver with respect to 
do anything without conferring with Brad Edwards? 
A. 
I heard that routinely from a number of 
people, that you were his brains. 
Q. 
Can you please provide the names of those 
number of people that told you that Scott Rothstein 
did not do anything without me? 
EFTA01138081

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1 
that privilege as a consequence of having 
2 
disclosed the content of this information. 
3 
MR. INDYKE: If Mr. Dershowitz is 
4 
referring to Mr. Epstein, then I would object 
5 
to --
6 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Did you get 
7 
that? 
8 
COURT REPORTER: No. 
9 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Can you repeat 
10 
the -- I want to make sure that we get the 
11 
record clear. 
12 
Go ahead and repeat your objection on the 
13 
phone, Darren. 
14 
MR. INDYKE: If Mr. Dershowitz, by 
15 
referring to privilege, is referring to 
16 
anything that he may have learned through his 
17 
representation of Mr. Epstein or through a 
18 
common interest agreement with Mr. Epstein, 
19 
then I would object to disclosure of the 
20 
contents. 
21 
MR. SCOTT: We also object on work product 
22 
because this is whole new area now, and I don't 
23 
think there's been any waiver. 
24 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Well, I'm going 
25 
reserve, consistent with yesterday's rulings, 
EFTA01138082

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1 
that we will protect the privilege for now and 
2 
we'll reserve for a later fuller discussion on 
3 
this. So we'll mark this and we'll move 
4 
forward. 
5 
MR. EDWARDS: Okay. 
6 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
7 
Q. 
At the time when you were told that Scott 
8 
Rothstein did not do anything without conferring 
9 
with Brad Edwards, were you representing Jeffrey 
10 
Epstein? 
11 
A. 
Yes. 
12 
Q. 
What were the circumstances of your 
13 
learning that information that Scott Rothstein did 
14 
not do anything without conferring with 
15 
Brad Edwards? 
16 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
17 
instruction. 
18 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: If you can 
19 
answer outside the privilege. 
20 
A. 
There's nothing outside of the privilege. 
21 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: So I would say 
22 
the following: I'm going to, for now, grant 
23 
the objection, consistent with yesterday, and I 
24 
think we need to either -- whether it's in 
25 
front of me or in front of Judge Lynch, fully 
EFTA01138083

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1 
2 
3 
4 
5 
6 
7 
8 
explore the timing of what -- the timing of 
when -- the timetable you're inquiring relative 
to his representation and the scope of that 
representation to best determine whether there 
was a privilege and if it exists. So for 
now --
MR. INDYKE: I'm sorry, Your Honor, just 
for the record, as well as any kind of common 
9 
interest agreement as well. 
10 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Fine. 
11 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
12 
Q. 
The last statement that you testified you 
13 
were told was that Brad Edwards was the brains 
14 
behind the Scott Rothstein operation. 
15 
A. 
That's right. 
16 
Q. 
Who outside of the privilege that you have 
17 
with Jeffrey Epstein told you that information? 
18 
A. 
Well, outside the privilege and outside of 
19 
common interest privilege and joint defense 
20 
privilege. 
21 
Q. 
Outside of the privileges 
22 
A. 
All those three privileges. 
23 
Q. 
Yes. 
24 
A. 
I don't have any distinct -- I can't 
25 
separate out necessarily the sources of everything I 
EFTA01138084

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1 
was told. But I was told that by a number of 
2 
people --
3 
Q. 
Did --
4 
A. 
-- using different phrases. 
5 
Q. 
Can you provide me the name of the number 
6 
of people that are outside of any of the common 
7 
interest or attorney-client privilege that told you 
8 
Brad Edwards was the brains behind the Scott 
9 
Rothstein operation? 
10 
A. 
I can't give you a name of somebody who 
11 
said those precise words outside the privilege. 
12 
Q. 
Can you give me the name of somebody who 
13 
said words similar to that effect outside the 
14 
privilege? 
15 
A. 
As I sit here now, I cannot. But I will 
16 
try to refresh my recollection. 
17 
Q. 
Okay. You also testified that you spoke 
18 
with somebody that told you Brad Edwards fabricated 
19 
evidence as a prosecutor. 
20 
A. 
That's right. That's right. 
21 
Q. 
What is the name of that person that told 
22 
you that information? 
23 
A. 
You know that. I don't. As I'm sitting 
24 
here today, I have no memory. But we can get that 
25 
for you. You, of course, know the name. 
EFTA01138085