EFTA01138026

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1 
please, please, please. 
2 
A. 
I'm invoking the privilege, if you would 
3 
allow me, please. A number of those who called me 
4 
called me in tandem to volunteer to be my lawyer. 
5 
I'll give you an example. 
6 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: No, no, hang on. 
7 
A. 
I can't name this person because he called 
8 
to give me legal advice, and I -- he gave me that 
9 
information as part of his legal advice. 
10 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
11 
Q. 
I'm not asking if one of the lawyers who 
12 
represented you and you have an attorney-client 
13 
privilege with has shared with you some information 
14 
that they believe to be the case. 
15 
I'm asking if you are using as support for 
16 
your statement that certain people told you and you 
17 
relied upon this -- and the particular "this" at 
18 
this point is that Brad Edward participated in a 
19 
major fraud with Scott Rothstein -- I want to know 
20 
the names of those people that you are relying upon 
21 
to test veracity of that statement, please. Names 
22 
of people. 
23 
A. 
One of the names was of a person who I was 
24 
seeking legal representation from, and it was part 
25 
of my conversation with him regarding legal 
EFTA01138046

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1 
representation. 
2 
MR. SCAROLA: That's not a name. 
3 
MR. EDWARDS: I'm sorry, I object and I 
4 
ask --
5 
A. 
If I give you the name 
6 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I do think you 
7 
have to give the name. 
8 
A. 
Okay. The name of that person would be 
9 
David Markus. 
10 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
11 
Q. 
Okay. 
12 
A. 
And he told me to check the docket --
13 
MR. SIMPSON: Just the question. 
14 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
15 
Q. 
When did David Markus call you to tell you 
16 
that he knew or believed that Brad Edwards 
17 
participated in a major fraud with Rothstein? 
18 
A. 
Within days. Within probably a day or 
19 
two. 
20 
Q. 
Did he tell you what it was that formed 
21 
the basis for that statement that he made to you 
22 
that you so relied upon? 
23 
A. 
I don't recall. 
24 
Q. 
Was it more than the fact that your 
25 
client, Jeffrey Epstein, had filed a lawsuit making 
EFTA01138047

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1 
those allegations? 
2 
A. 
I don't think he was aware that Jeffrey 
3 
Epstein had made an allegation of that kind. 
4 
Q. 
At the time when David Markus called you 
5 
to tell you that Brad Edwards participated in a 
6 
major fraud with Rothstein, did you already --
7 
A. 
That's not 
8 
Q. 
-- have or know that Scott Rothstein had 
9 
testified under oath about that specific subject 
10 
matter? 
11 
A. 
Well, I can't imagine that you're relying 
12 
on Scott Rothstein's credibility. 
13 
Q. 
I'm asking, did you know? 
14 
MR. SIMPSON: Just answer the question. 
15 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
16 
Q. 
Yes or no? 
17 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Did you know? 
18 
A. 
I did not know. 
19 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
20 
Q. 
Did you know at that point in time that 
21 
the Complaint that was filed by your client, Jeffrey 
22 
Epstein, against Brad Edwards, making those exact 
23 
allegations, had been dismissed at the stage -- at 
24 
the point in time when David Markus was making these 
25 
statements to you that you so relied upon? 
EFTA01138048

1 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
2 
instruction. 
3 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: He's --
4 
MR. EDWARDS: Calls for a yes or no 
5 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: He's only asked 
6 
if you aware that the case was dismissed at 
7 
that time. 
8 
A. 
I don't think I was. But a case being 
9 
dismissed does not mean the allegation isn't true. 
10 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I understand, 
11 
but --
12 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
13 
Q. 
Okay. In addition to David Markus, can 
14 
you please complete this list of people that you 
15 
testified called you to tell you specifically that 
16 
Brad Edwards participated in a major fraud with 
17 
Rothstein? 
18 
A. 
So, I spoke several times during that 
19 
period of time at various events. And people --
20 
lawyers came over to me and told me --
21 
Q. 
I'm not asking where. Who? What are the 
22 
names? 
23 
A. 
I can tell you one of them --
24 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: He's trying to 
25 
be -- I would allow him to answer it. He's 
EFTA01138049

672 
1 
trying to be responsive to the question. 
2 
Please proceed. 
3 
A. 
One of them was a former president or 
4 
chairman or at least member of the Florida Bar 
5 
committee who warned me about you. 
6 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
7 
Q. 
Does he have a name? 
8 
A. 
I don't remember his name. I don't 
9 
remember his name, no. Of course he has a name, but 
10 
I don't remember his name. 
11 
Another was -- I mean -- just hard to 
12 
pinpoint names, but it was something that was 
13 
clearly in my mind that so many people were telling 
14 
me -- telling me to look into the case of Rothstein, 
15 
telling me that you were his protege. 
16 
Q. 
Okay. Is it true, then, that you have the 
17 
name of one person who you can identify told you 
18 
that Brad Edwards participated in a major fraud with 
19 
Rothstein? 
20 
A. 
I was also aware, of course, of the 
21 
Complaint that had been filed against you. And that 
22 
was one -- I mean, I can't comment on that because 
23 
of lawyer-client privilege. 
24 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Listen to the 
25 
question, Professor. Go ahead. 
EFTA01138050

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1 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
2 
Q. 
Is it now your testimony that you can only 
3 
provide me with one name of one human being that 
4 
called you and told you Brad Edwards participated in 
5 
a major fraud with Rothstein? 
6 
A. 
I will try to think of others. 
7 
Probably -- I may have some notes of others. I will 
8 
call around and find out whether my memory is 
9 
correct or not. 
10 
MR. SIMPSON: Professor --
11 
A. 
But I don't want to mention names without 
12 
being sure. 
13 
MR. SIMPSON: Just do you recall, as you 
14 
sit here, the names? 
15 
A. 
And right now, I don't recall names, other 
16 
than a general discussion with my lawyers. And in 
17 
the general discussion with my lawyers -- and I 
18 
don't want to get into it --
19 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Then don't do 
20 
it. 
21 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
22 
Q. 
Are you relying upon the statements from 
23 
your lawyers to support this allegation that the 
24 
basis of your statement that Brad Edwards 
25 
participated in the fabrication of the allegations 
EFTA01138051

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1 
against you was a list of people told you 
2 
Brad Edwards participated in a major fraud with 
3 
Rothstein; and, if so, I want to know the names of 
4 
those lawyers that you are using to support that 
5 
allegation? 
6 
MR. SIMPSON: Well, we have asserted 
7 
privilege as to communications with those who 
8 
represented you. Please don't disclose that. 
9 
MR. SCAROLA: Respectfully -- pardon me --
10 
the witness is the possessor of that privilege. 
11 
He cannot make a statement disclosing the 
12 
content of the communications that he is 
13 
relying on and then he himself assert a 
14 
privilege to refuse to provide further 
15 
information with regard to the statement that 
16 
he has made. We would request a ruling on the 
17 
record as to whether there has already been a 
18 
waiver. 
19 
A. 
What I said, of course, was that 
20 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Excuse me. Hang 
21 
on a second. 
22 
MR. SCAROLA: We're requesting a ruling on 
23 
the record as to whether there has been a 
24 
waiver as a consequence of what has already 
25 
been stated. 
EFTA01138052

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1 
MR. SIMPSON: He did not testify that 
2 
he -- we went through long questions and 
3 
answers in response to Mr. Edwards' questions. 
4 
He did not say he was relying on what his 
5 
lawyers told him in this case. 
6 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I think that 
7 
there is -- let me say this: I think the 
8 
question was from Mr. Edwards whether he relied 
9 
on statements from his lawyers. I do think 
10 
that you have to answer that question. 
11 
A. 
I would say that the statements from my 
12 
lawyers played a small role. The larger role 
13 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
14 
Q. 
I want to know about that small role. 
15 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Hang on one 
16 
second. So now proceed. 
17 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
18 
Q. 
Sure. I would like to know whose 
19 
statements it was that played a small role in your 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
belief that Brad Edwards fabricated cases based on 
the statements that they made to you that 
Brad Edwards participated in a major fraud with 
Rothstein. What are the name of those individuals? 
A. 
It's a complicated question here. So 
there are three issues that I understand. One, what 
EFTA01138053

676 
1 
was the basis for my belief that you had fabricated 
2 
along with Mr. Cassell --
3 
Q. 
No, I'm asking for names of human beings. 
4 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: No, let me stop 
5 
you. My understanding of your testimony was 
6 
that whatever you received -- whatever 
7 
information you received from your lawyers 
8 
played a small role. That's what you testified 
9 
to. 
10 
THE WITNESS: That's right. 
11 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Correctly, 
12 
Mr. Edwards then followed up on that question 
13 
and said, let's go into that small role. 
14 
THE WITNESS: Okay. 
15 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: So now . . . 
16 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
17 
Q. 
What are the names of those people that 
18 
gave you this information that played a small role 
19 
in --
20 
A. 
In what? 
21 
Q. 
in your belief that Brad Edwards had 
22 
participated in a major fraud with Rothstein which 
23 
somehow furthered your belief that Brad Edwards and 
24 
Paul Cassell fabricated the allegations against you? 
25 
So I'm asking for names of the people. 
EFTA01138054

677 
1 
A. 
So my best recollection, and it's now over 
2 
a year, is that that was a subject of conversation 
3 
with David Markus. It was also the subject of 
4 
conversation with --
5 
MS. McCAWLEY: I'm sorry, I didn't hear 
6 
7 
8 
that. If he's talking about conversations 
MR. EDWARDS: He said Davis Markus. 
MS. McCAWLEY: I'm sorry. I couldn't 
9 
hear. 
10 
A. 
Another lawyer -- other people sent me 
11 
newspaper clippings. 
12 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: No, no, no. 
13 
A. 
Lawyer. Okay. The other lawyer who told 
14 
me about that was a lawyer named David Efron. 
15 
MR. SCAROLA: First of all, make sure the 
16 
list is complete, and then you want to know 
17 
every one. 
18 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
19 
Q. 
Is that it? David Markus, David Efron? 
20 
A. 
Those are the two I remember offhand. 
21 
Plus, as I said, when I spoke 
I spoke 
22 
at several events in January --
23 
Q. 
Right now --
24 
A. 
-- and lawyers came -- people 
25 
lawyers --
EFTA01138055

678 
1 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Let me stop you. 
2 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
3 
Q. 
Let me get to the next question. 
4 
A. 
Yes. 
5 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Let me ask the 
6 
witness, the question is limited to --
7 
MR. EDWARDS: Yes, the lawyers who played 
8 
a small role. 
9 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: The small role 
10 
around the lawyers, and I think the followup 
11 
question was, you've mentioned a second lawyer, 
12 
is there anybody else on that list? 
13 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
14 
Q. 
Yes. 
15 
A. 
Two lawyers, yes. The lawyers who came 
16 
over to me at the events that I spoke at. 
17 
Q. 
What are their names? 
18 
A. 
I don't know. 
19 
Q. 
How do you know that they're lawyers? 
20 
A. 
Because it was a lawyers' event. And they 
21 
were trial lawyers. This was all trial lawyers at 
22 
the event. Florida trial lawyers. 
23 
Q. 
You don't have the names of any of them; 
24 
is that right? 
25 
A. 
I can describe one of them as somebody who 
EFTA01138056

679 
1 
came over to me and told me -- he may have given me 
2 
a card, which I conceivably may have at home, told 
3 
me that he was a former official of the Florida Bar 
4 
and was outraged at what had happened and told me to 
5 
please look into your background and then told me 
6 
about your background. 
7 
Q. 
Dade Markus, is he a former student of 
8 
yours? 
9 
A. 
Yes, yes. 
10 
Q. 
Did he have anything to do with the 
11 
investigation into the -- Scott Rothstein or any of 
12 
that? 
13 
A. 
I don't know. 
14 
Q. 
David Efron, did he have any inside 
15 
personal information into who was or who was not 
16 
culpable in any aspect of the fraud with Scott 
17 
Rothstein? 
18 
A. 
I don't know. 
19 
MR. SCAROLA: You want to know exactly 
20 
what they said. 
21 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
22 
Q. 
Before we go to the next statement that 
23 
apparently formed your basis for believing that 
24 
Brad Edwards and Paul Cassell fabricated the 
25 
allegations against you, can you tell me exactly 
EFTA01138057

680 
1 
word for word as you remember it what David Markus 
2 
and then what David Efron told you --
3 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Let's start with 
4 
the first one. 
5 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
6 
Q. 
-- what David Markus told you about the 
7 
participation of Brad Edwards in a fraud with 
8 
Rothstein? 
9 
MR. SIMPSON: We assert privilege to the 
10 
extent that it's someone who he was getting 
11 
legal advice from. 
12 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I'm going to 
13 
allow the question. You can answer over 
14 
objection. 
15 
A. 
All I can tell you is what the total 
16 
information I had at that point. I can't now, as I 
17 
sit here, separate out what Markus said, what Efron 
18 
said, what the lawyers who I met at the events said. 
19 
I can give you a totality of what the conclusion was 
20 
that was reached. Each of them contributed 
21 
something. 
22 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
23 
Q. 
Where were you when you received this 
24 
communication from David Markus about his 
25 
understanding or belief that Brad Edwards 
EFTA01138058

681 
1 
participated in a major fraud with Rothstein? 
2 
A. 
In my apartment, I suspect. 
3 
Q. 
Do you remember this? 
4 
A. 
I remember being in my apartment when the 
5 
story broke and getting call after call after call 
6 
from lawyers. 
7 
Q. 
Was this a telephone call with David 
8 
Markus --
9 
A. 
Probably. 
10 
Q. 
-- or an in-person meeting? 
11 
A. 
It was -- well, I had both. I had both 
12 
with him. I had a telephone call and then we had a 
13 
meeting. 
14 
Q. 
And in this, did he describe to you what 
15 
support he had for this statement that he was making 
16 
to you regarding the involvement of Brad Edwards in 
17 
a major fraud with Rothstein? 
18 
MR. SCOTT: Objection, work product on 
19 
this whole line of questioning. He has the 
20 
name. If we're going to go beyond this, we 
21 
need a judicial ruling from the judge and you. 
22 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Well, I'm going 
23 
to allow the witness to answer it at this point 
24 
and overrule the objection without prejudice. 
25 
A. 
What is the question again? 
EFTA01138059

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1 
2 
3 
4 
5 
6 
7 
8 
9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Well 
the question. 
COURT REPORTER: "And in this, 
describe to you what support he had 
statement that he was making to you 
the involvement of Brad Edwards in 
fraud with Rothstein?" 
A. 
I'm sure he told me some 
, go back to 
did he 
for this 
regarding 
a major 
information 
involving his state of knowledge, but I can't 
separate out now what different people told me. All 
I remember is the totality of the conclusion that I 
reached based on what they told me. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
remember? 
What specifically did he tell you, if you 
MR. SCOTT: Same objection standing. I 
just wanted to make sure we have a standing 
objection. 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I'll give you a 
standing objection. I understand that piece. 
If you don't remember, you don't remember 
you can't describe it, rather than 
through again the generalities, so 
answer his specific question. 
A. 
Sure. Okay. The answer is I 
going 
try to 
or if 
do remember 
EFTA01138060

683 
1 
the generalities, but I don't remember the 
2 
particulars of that. I would be happy to try to 
3 
refresh my recollection. 
4 
MR. SCAROLA: We're going to take a short 
5 
break. 
6 
VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record. The 
7 
time is 9:38 a.m. 
8 
(Recess was held from 9:38 a.m. until 9:45 a.m.) 
9 
VIDEOGRAPHER: Going back on the record. 
10 
The time is 9:45 a.m. 
11 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
12 
Q. 
Did David Markus say Brad Edwards 
13 
participated in a major fraud with Rothstein? 
14 
MR. SCOTT: Objection, work product and 
15 
privileged. 
16 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I'll overrule 
17 
the objection. 
18 
MR. SCOTT: I have a question. Are we 
19 
taking the position that he has to answer the 
20 
question now and pending an appeal to the 
21 
judge? Is that what we're doing? 
22 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Or -- I will 
23 
reserve your right --
24 
MR. SCOTT: Because you reserved on all 
25 
their stuff yesterday. 
EFTA01138061

684 
1 
2 
3 
4 
5 
6 
7 
8 
9 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I will reserve 
on that, but I want him to answer the question 
at this point. I believe that at this point, 
given the inquiry and given the witness's 
answers previously, that they've opened the 
door, at least to this extent. But I will 
reserve, but I want him to answer. 
A. 
I will. I do not recall precisely what 
David Markus or David Efron said. I do recall that 
10 
they -- to the best of my recollection, that they 
11 
both contributed to my general sense of what your 
12 
reputation was. 
13 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
14 
Q. 
I want to only stick with David Markus and 
15 
then we'll move on to David Efron. 
16 
A. 
Okay. 
17 
Q. 
All right. Did David Markus say anything 
18 
along the lines of, close to, Brad Edwards 
19 
participated in a major fraud with Rothstein? 
20 
MR. SCOTT: Same objection. 
21 
A. 
My best recollection is that he said 
22 
something along those lines. He certainly said 
23 
something that led me to that conclusion. 
24 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
25 
Q. 
Did he tell you to look into a court file 
EFTA01138062

685 
1 
or did he tell you Brad Edwards participated in a 
2 
major fraud with Rothstein? 
3 
MR. SIMPSON: We have a continuing 
4 
objection on this, and also object to the form 
5 
of that one. 
6 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Yeah, well, the 
7 
form I'm not going to rule on, but the form is 
8 
awkward, at best. 
9 
MR. SIMPSON: We just want in the record 
10 
we have a continuing objection. 
11 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Yes. 
12 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
13 
Q. 
I've heard two statements. One is that 
14 
David Markus said to look into a court file. And 
15 
the other I understood you to say is, David Markus 
16 
told me Brad Edwards participated in a major fraud 
17 
with Rothstein, which is what gave the support for 
18 
the statement that I ultimately made about 
19 
Brad Edwards participating in the fabrication of 
20 
these allegations. 
21 
So I'm trying to understand, did David 
22 
Markus tell you that Brad Edwards participated in a 
23 
major fraud with Rothstein? 
24 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: You have a 
25 
continuing objection, but you can answer. 
EFTA01138063

686 
1 
A. 
To the best of my recollection, it's more 
2 
than a year ago now, he told me facts that led me to 
3 
conclude that you had participated in a major fraud. 
4 
He told me, for example, that what 
5 
Brad Edwards -- that what Rothstein was selling were 
6 
fake Edwards cases made up by people who didn't 
7 
exist. 
8 
He told me -- I think it was he who told 
9 
me, but I can't be sure, that you were a protege, 
10 
that you had offices that were very close to each 
11 
other, that the fraud was very similar to what was 
12 
being alleged against me. That's, again, my best 
13 
recollection of a conversation that occurred over a 
14 
year ago. 
15 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
16 
Q. 
Did he tell you where he gathered that 
17 
information that you just described to us? 
18 
A. 
He did not. I think he -- no, he did not 
19 
tell me precisely where he got it from, no. 
20 
Q. 
Did he share with you his own conclusion 
21 
that Brad Edwards participated in a major fraud with 
22 
Rothstein? 
23 
A. 
I don't recall that. That's not the 
24 
nature of the way a conversation happens. I wasn't 
25 
cross examining him. He was calling me to offer his 
EFTA01138064

687 
1 
assistance and to tell me how outrageous he thought 
2 
this was. And in the course of the conversation, he 
3 
mentioned to me that I should be very careful about 
4 
you, that you had this reputation, and then he told 
5 
me some things about your reputation that helped 
6 
form my general impression about who you were and 
7 
what you would do. 
8 
Q. 
With respect to the reputation of 
9 
Brad Edwards, did he tell you anything beyond 
10 
describing what he understood to be as facts related 
11 
to the Scott Rothstein fraud? 
12 
A. 
I think he -- others also told me that 
13 
Q. 
I'm only talking about David Markus. 
14 
A. 
Well, I can't separate out completely what 
15 
David Markus told me and what others told me. I 
16 
formed the holistic impression based on what a large 
17 
number of people told me. That's the best I can do. 
18 
Q. 
When was your first communication with 
19 
David Markus? 
20 
A. 
Oh, probably the day of the allegation or 
21 
maybe the day after. But very, very soon 
22 
thereafter. 
23 
Q. 
Do you have journal entries indicating the 
24 
telephone call that you had with David Markus? 
25 
A. 
I don't journals entries of that kind, no. 
EFTA01138065