EFTA01138026

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1 
Q. 
Why do you say that I know the name? 
2 
A. 
Because he sued you. 
3 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: This is not 
4 
Mr. Dershowitz, answer the question that's been 
5 
asked and let's not have crosstalk. 
6 
A. 
I do not know the name. 
7 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
8 
Q. 
At our next break, can you get us the name 
9 
of this individual? 
10 
A. 
I will try. I will try. 
11 
Q. 
When did you have a conversation with this 
12 
individual that told that you Brad Edwards 
13 
fabricated evidence as a prosecutor? 
14 
A. 
Shortly after the allegations in my case, 
15 
he called me. 
16 
Q. 
Did you meet with this person? 
17 
A. 
I did not. But -- I did not. 
18 
Q. 
Did you attempt to ascertain the 
19 
truthfulness --
20 
A. 
Yes. 
21 
Q. 
-- of this --
22 
MR. SCOTT: Listen to the question. 
23 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Listen to the 
24 
question. 
25 
EFTA01138086

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1 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
2 
Q. 
-- of this individual's statements that 
3 
Brad Edwards fabricated evidence as a prosecutor? 
4 
A. 
I did. 
5 
Q. 
What did you do to 
6 
A. 
I --
7 
Q. 
What did you do to ascertain the 
8 
truthfulness of this gentleman's statements that 
9 
Brad Edwards fabricated evidence as a prosecutor? 
10 
A. 
I obtained all of the pleadings that I 
11 
could in the case, including the tampered videotape. 
12 
I obtained the expert analysis of the videotape. I 
13 
think I personally viewed the videotape. It was a 
14 
jail videotape. 
15 
And I came to my own independent 
16 
conclusion that the videotape had been tampered 
17 
with, that the defendant had been denied his due 
18 
process rights, and that he would have prevailed in 
19 
that lawsuit but for prosecutorial immunity. 
20 
MR. SCAROLA: Could we inquire as to 
21 
whether these materials that Mr. Dershowitz 
22 
contends he relied upon have been disclosed in 
23 
discovery in this case in response to 
24 
production requests that clearly would have 
25 
called for that production? 
EFTA01138087

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1 
MR. SIMPSON: I don't -- I will answer 
2 
that question at a break. I'm not agreeing 
3 
whether it's called for or not called, but I 
4 
don't have a microscopic memory of everything 
5 
that's been produced in the case. But 
6 
certainly if it was called for and it was 
7 
responsive, it was either produced or is on a 
8 
privilege log. 
9 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Let's deal with 
10 
that at break between you guys. Go ahead. 
11 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
12 
Q 
Is the person you are referring to Donald 
13 
Baker? 
14 
A 
I don't have his name in my mind, but I 
15 
can find that out. 
16 
Q. 
Is this the lawsuit where the person sued 
17 
Michael Satz, Judge Micheal Gates, the entire 
18 
Hollywood Police Department, and in that list of 
19 
defendants included the prosecutors of the case, 
20 
which was Brad Edwards and some other prosecutor I 
21 
don't remember the name? 
22 
A. 
That's not my recollection. 
23 
Q. 
Is your recollection that this is a 
24 
lawsuit that was filed against Brad Edwards alone? 
25 
A. 
My focus was on the lawsuit filed against 
EFTA01138088

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1 
Brad Edwards. I don't -- I didn't focus on any 
2 
other people who might have been sued. But I did 
3 
focus on Brad Edwards and I did get the pleadings, 
4 
and last year early in the year I read them. I 
5 
my research assistant went through all the 
6 
pleadings. Either he or I or both of us viewed the 
7 
videotape together. He wrote me some note about it. 
8 
And I came to the conclusion that the lawsuit was a 
9 
very valid one. 
10 
Q. 
Was that note that you just described a 
11 
part of that conclusion that you reached? 
12 
A. 
No, the note was probably just, here is 
13 
the video, here is this, here is that. It was 
14 
just -- my recollection of the note, it was just an 
15 
inventory of some kind. 
16 
Q. 
Did you read the jury trial transcript 
17 
from the criminal case you're referring to? 
18 
A. 
Well, the civil case had no jury, had no 
19 
trial. It was dismissed. The criminal case, I 
20 
don't remember if I read the jury trial or if my 
21 
research assistant did or -- I just don't remember 
22 
that. I do remember reading the pleadings, which 
23 
included excerpts from the trial. 
24 
Q. 
Did you read any of the transcripts from 
25 
the testimony regarding that defendant's motion for 
EFTA01138089

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1 
ineffective assistance of counsel? 
2 
A. 
No, not that I can recall. 
3 
Q. 
Did you read any of the transcripts from 
4 
the hearing on that defendant's complaints about 
5 
misconduct on behalf of the City of Hollywood Police 
6 
Department or any others? 
7 
A. 
I did -- I do remember reading about the 
8 
fact that the actual physical tampering was done by 
9 
the Hollywood Police Department. But the 
10 
allegation, to my best of my memory, it's been a 
11 
long time now, was that you covered it up or played 
12 
a role in it. 
13 
Q. 
Did you review the criminal record of this 
14 
individual that provided you with the information 
15 
that Brad Edwards fabricated evidence as a 
16 
prosecutor? 
17 
A. 
I don't remember reviewing his criminal 
18 
record. I do recall that the crime itself -- no, I 
19 
just -- I don't remember reviewing his criminal 
20 
record. I may very well have, but I don't remember 
21 
it now. 
22 
Q. 
When you say you do remember reviewing the 
23 
crime itself, the crime was a battery on a law 
24 
enforcement officer. Is that what you remember? 
25 
A. 
My recollection is that in the course of 
EFTA01138090

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1 
being arrested, he was accused of resisting arrest. 
2 
That's my best recollection. I may have that wrong. 
3 
And that he complained that they cut off -- that he 
4 
was assaulted and he was only defending himself, and 
5 
that they cut off the video at the point that would 
6 
show the complete context. That's my best 
7 
recollection. And it's, again, a long time ago. 
8 
Q. 
Did you or your representative initiate 
9 
the contact with this individual who --
10 
A. 
No. 
11 
Q. 
-- claimed that Brad Edwards fabricated 
12 
evidence as a prosecutor? 
13 
A. 
No, no. To my knowledge and my 
14 
recollection, he initiated the contact. 
15 
Q. 
Is this -- did this individual's criminal 
16 
record include a first-degree murder conviction? 
17 
A. 
Certainly I was not aware of that, if it 
18 
did. 
19 
Q. 
Did -- in your review of this record --
20 
A. 
I would find that hard to believe. 
21 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Listen. 
22 
A. 
He was out on the street when he called 
23 
me. 
24 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
25 
Q. 
Do you remember whether or not this 
EFTA01138091

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1 
defendant was sentenced to prison after his 
2 
conviction? 
3 
A. 
I'm confused. Is the conviction you're 
4 
referring to after the events at issue? 
5 
Q. 
The conviction of battery on a law 
6 
enforcement officer, the case I prosecuted. 
7 
A. 
Did that take place before or after his 
8 
alleged conviction on a murder charge? 
9 
Q. 
Well after. 
10 
A. 
So, what you're asking me, if I knew about 
11 
a prior earlier first-degree murder conviction? 
12 
Q. 
Sure. My first question is, did you know 
13 
about a prior earlier first-degree murder conviction 
14 
of this person whose word you're accepting that 
15 
Brad Edwards fabricated evidence as a prosecutor? 
16 
Did you know about that? 
17 
A. 
I was not accepting his word. I'm aware 
18 
of how to be skeptical about words. I did an 
19 
independent evaluation of the evidence, then came to 
20 
my conclusion. 
21 
Q. 
Were you aware of this gentleman's prior 
22 
murder conviction? 
23 
A. 
I'm not aware of it as I sit here now, no. 
24 
I don't think I was. 
25 
Q. 
Are you aware as you sit here now whether 
EFTA01138092

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1 
this gentleman was sentenced to prison after the 
2 
jury verdict finding him guilty of battery on a law 
3 
enforcement officer? 
4 
A. 
My recollection is that he was offered a 
5 
plea if he would withdraw his lawsuit, and that he 
6 
refused to withdraw his lawsuit. I think that was 
7 
part of his Complaint, that he was coerced, that 
8 
there was an effort to try to coerce him into 
9 
pleading guilty. But, again, these were all matters 
10 
of record, and it's a year ago, so my recollection 
11 
is not as clear. 
12 
Q. 
What documents do you have to support that 
13 
this gentleman was offered a plea in exchange for 
14 
him agreeing to withdraw a lawsuit? 
15 
A. 
That was my memory. 
16 
Q. 
In order for that to be the case, wouldn't 
17 
you agree that his lawsuit must have preceded his 
18 
jury trial in order for your logic to be correct? 
19 
A. 
Of course not. Of course not, no. Why 
20 
would that be? A lawsuit almost certainly -- he may 
21 
have threatened a lawsuit previously and it was part 
22 
of a -- my understanding, again, it's long time ago, 
23 
was that there was -- there were plea bargaining 
24 
efforts after he was convicted and that there 
25 
were -- this is just my memory of a long time ago --
EFTA01138093

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1 
2 
3 
4 
5 
6 
7 
8 
that the -- that they would give him a consideration 
in sentencing if he didn't go through with his 
threat to bring a lawsuit. That was my 
recollection. 
Q. 
In addition to talking to this particular 
individual who told you that Brad Edwards fabricated 
evidence as a prosecutor --
A. 
Right, or participated in the fabrication. 
9 
Q. 
10 
representative of his or his attorneys that 
11 
corroborated that allegation? 
12 
A. 
Representative of his? 
13 
Q. 
Anybody other than --
14 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: That's the 
15 
question, yes. 
16 
A. 
Not to my recollection, no. 
17 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
18 
Q. 
Have you -- has anyone other than this 
19 
particular person you have identified told you that 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
-- did you speak to anyone else that was a 
Brad Edwards fabricated evidence as a prosecutor? 
A. 
That's a conclusion -- first of all, I 
never, as far as I remember, never publicly stated 
that. I've told you that that was part of what went 
into my conclusion about your reputation and record 
and background. 
EFTA01138094

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1 
But the question again? 
2 
Q. 
Right. A person's name. Tell me what 
3 
other -- what other individual, if anyone, has ever 
4 
told you Brad Edwards fabricated evidence as a 
5 
prosecutor. 
6 
A. 
I did not rely on his statement to me of 
7 
that. I did my own research, came to my own 
8 
conclusion about the facts based on my review of 
9 
the 
10 
MR. EDWARDS: Object. Move to strike as 
11 
Nonresponsive. 
12 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Stay focused on 
13 
the question being asked. 
14 
A. 
No other name -- no other person told me 
15 
that. I did it on the basis of my own research. 
16 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
17 
Q. 
Can you tell me the names of all of the 
18 
individuals that told you Brad Edwards has a 
19 
terrible reputation? 
20 
MR. INDYKE: Objection. Same objection. 
21 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
22 
Q. 
Outside of the attorney-client privilege, 
23 
the joint defense privilege and any other privileges 
24 
that you maintain with Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine 
25 
Maxwell or anyone else a part of that agreement. 
EFTA01138095

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1 
MR. SIMPSON: Object to the form as 
2 
becoming very redundant. 
3 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: You can answer. 
4 
A. 
Several people who came to me at these Bar 
5 
meetings told me that, and I just heard it from 
6 
many, many people who called me. 
7 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
8 
Q. 
Okay. I'm --
9 
A. 
But I'm having difficulty coming up with a 
10 
specific name. I will check to see if I have any 
11 
notes. 
12 
Q. 
I just want the list of those many, many 
13 
people in response to this question that told you 
14 
Brad Edwards has a terrible reputation. 
15 
A. 
Okay. And I, right now, cannot name any 
16 
person other than the information that I have 
17 
already provided you. 
18 
Q. 
Did you ever attempt to contact 
19 
Brad Edwards or any representative of Brad Edwards 
20 
to talk to him about any allegation of misconduct on 
21 
his part before you relied on these allegations you 
22 
received? 
23 
A. 
This will require -- I can't do this yes 
24 
or no. I can only do this with an explanation. 
25 
MR. SCAROLA: Could we start with a yes or 
EFTA01138096

719 
1 
no to a question that clearly can be answered 
2 
with a "yes" or "no" or "I don't remember"? 
3 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Before anybody 
4 
objects to his answer, let's see what he says. 
5 
Go ahead, and then we'll work backwards. 
6 
A. 
What's the question again? Just repeat 
7 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
8 
Q. 
Sure. Did you attempt to contact 
9 
Brad Edwards or any representative of Brad Edwards 
10 
to talk to him about any allegation of misconduct on 
11 
his part before you relied on those allegations from 
12 
these individuals you have identified? 
13 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: So, I've heard 
14 
the question. I do think that it's either yes 
15 
or no, and I'm going to allow you full latitude 
16 
to explain. So please proceed in that manner. 
17 
A. 
It's no with an explanation. 
18 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Go ahead. 
19 
A. 
Because I was not making these allegations 
20 
public, as you made your allegations against me 
21 
public without calling me, because I was not making 
22 
these allegations public, because I was only using 
23 
them as part of my own internal work product, my own 
24 
internal dynamic, my own thinking process, I didn't 
25 
think it was necessary for me to call you and ask 
EFTA01138097

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1 
you about it. And so I did not. 
2 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
3 
Q. 
Did you attempt to contact Brad Edwards or 
4 
any agent of Brad Edwards to talk to him before 
5 
making the allegation that "Brad Edwards and Paul 
6 
Cassell and 
sat down together, the 
7 
three of them, these two sleazy, unprofessional, 
8 
disbarrable lawyers, they and the woman got together 
9 
and contrived and made this up"? 
10 
A. 
Well --
11 
Q. 
Yes or no? 
12 
A. 
The answer to that is with Brad Edwards, 
13 
no. With Cassell, it would be a different answer if 
14 
you want to ask me about that. 
15 
Q. 
All right. Okay. Prior to January 5, 
16 
2015, making the statement that they, Brad Edwards 
17 
and Paul Cassell, and the woman got together and 
18 
contrived and made this up, did you contact Paul 
19 
Cassell? 
20 
A. 
I tried to reach out to Paul Cassell 
21 
through a number of mutual acquaintances, and was 
22 
told that he had no interest in having any 
23 
conversation with me. 
24 
Q. 
Tell me the date that you first reached 
25 
out to Paul Cassell through anyone. 
EFTA01138098

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1 
2 
3 
4 
5 
6 
7 
8 
9 
10 
months and months and months to reach out and do all 
11 
the checking. 
12 
I was in an emergency situation. I was 
13 
getting calls, probably a hundred a day, from every 
14 
media in the world asking me to respond immediately. 
15 
And I had to respond at that point based on the best 
16 
information I had available to me. I could not hire 
17 
an investigator. I could not conduct a massive 
18 
research operation. I was being accused of the most 
19 
heinous crime imaginable, absolutely falsely, and I 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
A. 
I don't recall the date. 
Q. 
Is it your testimony that the date you 
tried to reach out to Paul Cassell preceded 
January 5, 2015, when you made the statement that 
Brad Edwards and Paul Cassell and this woman got 
together and contrived and made this up? 
A. 
That will require a "no" answer and an 
explanation. Okay. The explanation is that before 
you made your false allegation against me, you had 
had to respond immediately. 
And my response was based on my state of 
knowledge, my opinion, my professional opinion, and 
I gave those at the time because I had to give a 
response immediately. I couldn't say "no comment." 
I couldn't say, "I refuse to answer." Others have 
EFTA01138099

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1 
done that. I was totally, totally innocent. And I 
2 
had to respond immediately to these false charges, 
3 
which is what I did. 
4 
I need to take a break. 
5 
MR. SCOTT: Take recess for a couple of 
6 
minutes. 
7 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Let's take a 
8 
ten-minute break. Lawyers, can you stay for 
9 
just a second. I want to deal with a secondary 
10 
matter dealing with a deposition on Saturday. 
11 
VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record. The 
12 
time is 10:32 a.m. 
13 
(Discussion held off video record only as follows:) 
14 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: We are off the 
15 
video, but I wanted to have this on the record. 
16 
I've reviewed the confidentiality order that's 
17 
pending that was issued by Judge Lynch, and I 
18 
just want to be clear as we head into the 
19 
deposition on Saturday as to get the party's 
20 
view as to who should be in attendance at that 
21 
deposition. So, Ms. McCawley, why don't you 
22 
start. 
23 
MS. McCAWLEY: Sure. Sure. The 
24 
deposition is a confidential deposition that is 
25 
going to be held under seal. It will be filed 
EFTA01138100

723 
1 
under seal. And our position is that the 
2 
individuals who need to be present at that 
3 
deposition are the parties in this case, so the 
4 
actual -- Brad and Paul, their lawyers, and 
5 
Mr. Dershowitz and his lawyers. 
6 
No other individuals; for example, 
7 
Mr. Dershowitz's wife or anybody else can be 
8 
present at that deposition. It's a deposition 
9 
of who we contend is a sex abuse victim. It 
10 
should be closed and sealed, and nobody else 
11 
should be present. 
12 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Do you not want 
13 
me there? 
14 
MS. McCAWLEY: I do want you there. 
15 
Sorry. 
16 
MR. SIMPSON: Our position is that 
17 
Professor Dershowitz's wife should be permitted 
18 
to attend. They're married. She'll agree to 
19 
whatever confidentiality. She's worked with 
20 
him on the case as a paralegal. She's entitled 
21 
to be there. 
22 
We have advised -- and I don't know if 
23 
Darren is still on the line -- counsel for 
24 
Mr. Epstein that it's confidential and that 
25 
non-parties are not permitted to attend, per 
EFTA01138101

724 
1 
Ms. McCawley's position that it's between those 
2 
folks if they disagree about that. But as to 
3 
Mrs. Cohen, we're adamant she has a right to be 
4 
there and there's no legitimate basis for 
5 
excluding her. 
6 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Hang on one 
7 
second. Anything else? 
8 
MR. SCOTT: No. 
9 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Mr. Scarola, 
10 
Mr. Edwards, do you have an opinion on this? 
11 
MR. SCAROLA: No. 
12 
MR. EDWARDS: Our opinion is consistent 
13 
with the opinion of Sigrid McCawley or the 
14 
argument of Sigrid McCawley. 
15 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Darren, go 
16 
ahead. 
17 
MR. INDYKE: I would like to give this to 
18 
Florida counsel because this is the first I'm 
19 
hearing of it. But I would say that at the 
20 
very least, there's some confidentiality 
21 
obligations that are applicable to Ms. Roberts 
22 
in connection with the settlement agreement 
23 
that was signed. And that Mr. Epstein should 
24 
have counsel there present to protect any 
25 
disclosures --
EFTA01138102

725 
1 
MR. SCAROLA: We have a very strong 
2 
opinion on that. 
3 
MS. McCAWLEY: Right. And I just want to 
4 
be clear, Mr. Epstein's counsel has not 
5 
appeared in this case. I argued this issue 
6 
before the judge, and I have a confidentiality 
7 
order from Judge Lynch signed based on my 
8 
motion to quash. 
9 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I've rereviewed 
10 
both your motions and the order. 
11 
Darren, anything else? 
12 
MR. INDYKE: No, that's as far as I 
13 
understand right now. 
14 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Mr. Scarola, you 
15 
wanted to say something? You were 
you had 
16 
some strong opinion I wanted to hear. 
17 
MR. SCAROLA: The purpose of the 
18 
confidentiality motion was to exclude 
19 
Mr. Epstein from the deposition, among other 
20 
purposes. But we did not want to be in a 
21 
position where 
was 
22 
obliged to give her testimony in front of any 
23 
of her abusers, but most specifically not in 
24 
front of the individual accused of having 
25 
maintained her as a sex slave for an extended 
EFTA01138103

726 
1 
period of time. 
2 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: So, I've 
3 
reviewed both the motion that was filed as well 
4 
as the order. While the order lacks any real 
5 
specificity, my view of the order is as 
6 
follows: That the deposition on Saturday, 
7 
obviously the named parties and their 
8 
representatives can attend. The witness and 
9 
their counsel can attend. The court reporter 
10 
and myself. And that will be it. 
11 
If there is any further clarification from 
12 
Judge Lynch, I'm happy to consider it. But as 
13 
of right now, those are the only parties and 
14 
people that will be allowed to attend the 
15 
deposition. 
16 
MS. McCAWLEY: Thank you. 
17 
MR. SCOTT: You are excluding Ms. Cohen? 
18 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I'm excluding 
19 
Ms. Cohen and excluding Mr. Epstein's 
20 
attorneys. 
21 
MR. INDYKE: I just want to note my 
22 
objection, but I will take that up with Florida 
23 
counsel. 
24 
(Recess was held from 10:37 a.m. until 10:50 a.m.) 
25 
MS. McCAWLEY: Just for something for the 
EFTA01138104

727 
1 
record, I mentioned to Rick yesterday I have to 
2 
leave here at 3:45 this afternoon, so he made 
3 
representations that there wouldn't be any 
4 
testimony with respect to Boies Schiller 
5 
Flexner or those allegations that have 
6 
repetitively come up in the deposition outside 
7 
of counsel's presence. But I do have to leave 
8 
because I have to catch a plane, so I won't be 
9 
here this afternoon, and they've agreed to 
10 
that. 
11 
MR. SIMPSON: She's correct about the 
12 
agreement. 
13 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: What we might 
14 
do, then, is break at that point if we're going 
15 
to have to come back anyway. 
16 
MR. EDWARDS: What time is that? 
17 
MS. McCAWLEY: 3:45. 
18 
THE WITNESS: If we could finish in a 
19 
couple of hours, I'd like to do that, if that's 
20 
possible. 
21 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: It's not my 
22 
deposition. 
23 
MR. EDWARDS: At this stage and at this 
24 
pace, I don't see how that's possible. That 
25 
was my goal, but I don't see it happening. 
EFTA01138105