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This is an FBI investigation document from the Epstein Files collection (FBI VOL00009). Text has been machine-extracted from the original PDF file. Search more documents →

FBI VOL00009

EFTA00233329

549 pages
Pages 421–440 / 549
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June 10, 2009 
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THE COURT: Last name is spelled? 
HR. EDWARDS: Edwards. E-D-N-A-R-D-S.
THE COURT: 
Okay. 
HR. GOLDBERGER: For the other side, Your Honor, 
Jack Goldberger along with Robert Critton on behalf of 
Jeffrey Epstein. 
THE COURT: It is the Post's and E.M.'s Motion to 
Intervene for the purpose of unsealing records? 
HR. BERGER: Yes, air. 
THE COURT: Hero's what I think I know, and I tell 
you this so that you can fill in the gaps of whet you know 
that I don't know and suggest what you think I ought to 
do. It appears to me that there was some agreement 
an 
agreement that was sealed and then an addendum or 
amendment to the agreement that was sealed as to documents 
in the Court's files under seal and it appears as though 
the punitive interveners want to unseal those and take a 
peak at them. I don't see where any of the proper 
procedures to seal the documents was ever followed to 
begin with. I don't know but it's not jumping out at me 
when I reviewed the file. So, I'■ thinking that it might 
be appropriate and the burden might be on the moving 
party, being the State and Mr. Epstein, to give them the 
opportunity to jump through the bur -- hoops to seal the 
documents if they are entitled to have them sealed, then 
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I'll grant that request. If they're not entitled to seal 
then I'll order it as documents unsealed. Hut that's kind 
of procedurally where I think the case is. I will allow 
Mr. Berger and Ms. Shullman to argue if they wish to, 
otherwise I will go over to Mr. Goldberger and Mr. Critton 
to perhaps talk about what they think about my suggestion. 
Mr. Berger? 
MR. BERGER: I -- I•d like to hear what they say. 
THE COURT: Ms. Shullman? 
MS. BHULLMAN: Agreed. 
THE COURT: Mr. Goldberger? 
MR. GOLDBHRGER: Your Honor 
THE COURT: I mean, it looks like they Just handed 
up an Agreed Order to sign. 
MR. GOLDBERGER: Well 
if the Court -- I know the 
Court is trying to short circuit here and the idea in 
theory is not horrible, it's not terrible, it's actually 
not so bad. Hut let me alert the Court to a couple of 
issues'. First of all, this is not something that came up 
ahead of time where we were moving to close a hearing or 
file documents under seal and the Rules of Judicial 
Administration makes an important distinction between 
things that are done in advance and things that come up 
during a hearing and the fact that maybe it goes to the 
Rule -- talk about situations that arise during the course 
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of a hearing, that the Rules would not apply to that. 
Secondly, E.W.'s Notion to Intervene is brought under a 
Rule that does not apply because she brought it under a 
Rule that applies to non-criminal cases. Having said that 
I know the Court's desire to get to the issues here and I 
Just need to alert the Court to one other matter because I 
think it's really important. The Plaintiff's, E.N., has 
this agreement already. They have this agreement. Counsel 
will tell you they have this agreement. There have been 
two hearings in front of Judge Marra who has the Federal 
eases here. They moved to unseal the non-prosecution 
agreement in front of Judge Marra. He entered an initial 
Order, a very, very well reasoned Order which I have a 
copy for the Court. 
THE COURT: Oh, thanks. 
MR. ooLDSERORR: He entered a very, very well 
reasoned Order weighing the interest of the Plaintiffs to 
have access to the non-prosecution agreement with the 
confidentiality that the parties intended to be part of 
this agreement. And what he did, he said they can have 
this agreement. They can review it all they want. If they 
went to review it with somebody else, they need to give 
them a copy of this Order that it is not to be disclosed 
to anyone else. Subsequent to that -- so that's the Rule 
that's in place right now. Subsequent to that the 
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Plaintiffs went back and said we want to disseminate this 
order. we want to disseminate this agreement to other 
parties and Judge Werra entered a second Order denying 
that request and said, no. My Order is in place but if you 
have some compelling reason why you want this agreement to 
be disseminated to others, file a motion and come back to 
THE COURT: This is as a result of some civil 
litigation pending in the Pederal Courthouse? 
MR. GoLDBERGER: Yee. 
THE COURT' As opposed to any criminal prosecution 
going on? 
MR. GOLDBERGER: It is civil proceedings that are 
going on in Federal Court. But in the interest of comedy, 
Your Honor, the Court has ruled on the confidentiality 
agreement and has put a well reasoned procedure into 
place. If the parties want that agreement unsealed where 
they need to go is go back to Federal Court and Judge 
Marra invited them to do so. 
THE COURT' That may be as it pertains to E.M., but 
what about The Poet? 
MR. GOLDBERGER: I think -- and I think I know where 
the Court is going on this. If The Poet's position is the 
public haw right to act 
access to this then there is a 
procedure in place and ultimately the Court has to conduct 
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a hearing and do the balancing test where you look at 
whether there is some compelling government interest and 
that's going to require an evidentiary hearing. So I have 
no great objection to tiling the Request for Closure and 
then have a hearing in front of the Court. 
THE COURT: Well, let's do -- I'm thinking out loud. 
I'm not ruling. I will give you all a chance to argue 
further, but this is what I'm thinking I will do, grant 
the Motion to Intervene. It gives standing to E.X. It 
gives standing to The eat to contest the fact that these 
were sealed. And then I will shift the burden back on the 
State and Defendant, Mr. Epstein, to petition the Court to 
seal these documents. Until such time that I rule on that 
I will leave them under seal because they might hove been 
correctly sealed but the procedure wasn't followed. 
There's got to be notice. You've got to comply with the 
Administrative order 2.307. You've got to comply with the 
Rule of Judicial Administration 2.420(d). I think even 
though that's a civil 
it addresses a civil matter this 
is, you know, in the nature of a civil procedure. So, I'll 
do that. And thank you for these Orders. So, where do we 
go fro■ here? I'm thinking out loud, not ruling. Mr. 
Berger? 
KR. BERBER: Judge, with all due respect I 
completely disagree with counsel's characterization of 
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those two Orders. I don't know if he handed up both to 
You? 
THE COURT: I do. 
MR. BERBER: They simply do not say what he tells 
you they say. 
THE COURT: I'll read the■ --
MR. BERUER: 
All right. 
THE COURT: -- and I'll allow you to make that 
argument --
MR. BERBER: And -- and 
THE COURT: -- at the time of tho Renewed Motion to 
Seal. 
MR. BERGER: 
All right. And, also, I don't think the 
Court -- I think the Court needs to deal with this 
immediately, expeditiously. This is a matter that the 
supreme court has placed incredible scrutiny over. And the 
Rule that we art traveling under -- we're not only 
traveling under a Rule of Judicial Administration that 
applies to criminal and civil cases, we're applying to an 
Administrative Order of this Court that was in place when 
the sealing was done and that superseded the sealing. 
THE COURT, 
I --
MR. BERBER: I'm just saying, I respectfully request 
that the Court not delay this one minute. 
THE COURT: 
You've got the agreements. 
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MR. BERGER: Pardon met 
THE COURT: You've got the agreements anyway. You've 
got what's under seal. 
MR. BERGER: 
Judge, we cannot do anything with them. 
THE COURT: Take that up with Judge Marra. 
MR. BERGER: No, sir. That is not what the Order 
says. May I quote Judge Marra. •If a specific tangible 
need arises in a civil case the relief should be sought in 
that case.• In other words, the civil case■ which are in 
front of Judge Hefei' is one forum that Judge marra said 
go to it. Judge Marra did not say that this Court does not 
have jurisdiction to unseal its own sealed records or to 
vacate its own Order sealing. And any characterization is 
-- is false. 
THE COURT: I'll take a look at it and I'll draw 
from it what it says -- what I think it says. I appreciate 
your zealous representation of your client. Please, it 
appears as though you're yelling at me. 
NB. SHULLMAN1 
Your Honor? 
THE COURT: 
Ms. Shullman? 
MR. BERGER: Judge, Chia happaoss to be a very 
serious matter and every day of delay delays our 
discovery. 
THE COURT: 
Ms. Shulloan? 
MS. SHOLLMAN: 
Your Honor, if I may be heard on the 
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issue as well. As a representative of the public's right 
of access 
THE COURT: Right. 
MS. SHULLMAN: -- here essentially, I would agree 
With Mr. Berger that we need an immediate hearing on this 
issue. That's what we're here to do today. I think I heard 
Your Honor say that he's not clear that the Procedures 
were applied. My review of the record does not reveal that 
the procedures were complied with. My review is similar to 
Your Honor's. It looks like sort of everybody approached 
the bench and Judge Pucillo said let's take it under seal. 
If Mr. Epstein's counsel is not prepared to go forward 
today and meet hia burden, then I would ask thet this 
Court eet a hearing as soon as practical because the right 
solution here should be to unseal the records and then, 
YOU know --
THE COURT: I've crotchet. 
MS. SHULLMAN: -- and they have to make a motion. 
THE COURT. Well, what house is on fire? I mean, 
what is the -- I think what they have to do is they've got 
to give ten days notice pursuant to the Rule -- the 
Administrative Order, Rules of Judicial Administration, to 
go through that process. What -- what prejudice is there? 
What house is burning down if I say okay. State and 
defense, go ahead and expeditiously move through the 
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process and lot's get this back on my docket as quickly as 
possible and give them until Friday to tile their notice 
and ten days after that we have an evidentiary hearing. I 
go through the process then. What bad thing is going to 
happen by waiting these extra twelve to fifteen days? 
MS. SHOLLMAN: The bad thing that's going to happen, 
Your Honor, is that the status quo in Florida is that the 
constitutional right of access is openness. 
THE COURT: Right. 
MS. SHULIMAM: You know, certainly if Your Honor is 
inclined to postpone this hearing I would ask that it be 
done expeditiously as you suggest. 
THE COURT: Yeah. 
MS. SHULLMAN: You know, Friday and then ten days 
thereafter, it just delays: access for another two weeks 
and it infringes on our rights. 
THE COURT: I agree. Mr. Berger, I will In you 
answer that same question. 
MR. BERGER: I don't think --
THE COURT: Anything specific rather than --
MR. BERGER: Yes. 
THE COURT: You know, anything closed that the 
people are allowed to look at is a transgression and any 
transgression is bad, but anything unique beyond that? 
MR. BERGER: Your Honor -- Your Honor, I do not 
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Proceedings 
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believe chat this Court has the jurisdiction to revisit 
the propriety of the sealing of these records and give the 
Defendant or the state, for that matter, a second bite at 
the apple. If the records are settled improperly, which the 
Court has said on its face that appears to have occurred, 
I do not believe that this Court has jurisdiction to allow 
them a second bite at the apple to go through with the 
notice requirements. They should have done that in front 
of Judge Pucillo a year ago and they did not do it. The 
Rule of Judicial Administration 2.420 simply does not give 
this Court the right to reactivate the procedure that you 
outlined. 
THE COURT; Okay. 
HR. BERGER: Thank you. 
THE COURT: Anything further, Hr. Goldberger or Hr. 
Critton? 
HR. Gol,DBERGER: Just note, Your Honor, as far as 
the timing of this and we want to do this expeditiously, 
of course, this sealing occurred not last week, not two 
weeks ago, not four months ago but eleven and ono half 
months ago. The Post reported this last July. So, I 
understand the right for the pubic to have access and we 
want to do this as quickly as possible but there is no 
fire here. There is no house burning. 
THE COURT: Then I'll go ahead and enter an Order as 
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I've indicated, that is that I'll grant the intervener's 
Motion to Intervene. You have standing. I will order that 
the State and/or the defense by noon Friday file a Notice 
of -- comply with the Administrative order 2.303 and the 
Judicial Rule -- the Rule of Judicial Administration 
2.420, paragraph d, that outlines the procedures to seal 
files in these types of cases and then we'll get a hearing 
scheduled for argument on whether or not they will be 
sealed. Until that time they will remain sealed because 
Judge wucillo signed off on the Order and I'm not inclined 
to disturb that until I find more about the merits of the 
movant's position. 
MR. GOLDBERGER: Thank you. 
THE COURT: Anybody want to reduce any of that mess
to • written Order? 
MR. EDWARDS: I'd like to Your Honor. I'd like to 
know if you're going to give us a hearing date today. 
THE COURT: I'll deal with that. Yeah. Let me give 
you some time. How much time do you think it's going to 
take? I don't think I'm going to have any surprises. How 
much time do you think we need? A half hour? 
MR. EDWARDS: Not more. I'd say an hour at the 
longest. 
THE COURT: I'm not taking evidence or anything like 
that. In the meantime, do you agree Lt would be prudent 
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Proceedings 
June 10, 2009 
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for no to take a look and see what the content of these 
things are so I can be articulate on what -- their know 
about? I didn't do that for today's hearing? 
MR. GOLDBERGER: The defense 
MR. EDWARDS: The non-prosecution agreement? 
THE COURT: Right. Whatever is under seal. Whatever 
it is that's under seal I'll take a look at it so that I 
Can at least have a feel for apparently what you all know 
and I don't. 
HR. OOLDBEROCRe 
The defense has no objection. 
THE COURT: Okay. I'll go ahead and road those two 
sealed documents and I'll see you back here, assuming that.
Hr. Goldberger and Mr. Critton gut that done between now 
and Priday. Ten days from this Friday 
about we do this on the 25th at 1:30? 
MR. GOLDBRRGER: Ona moment, Your Honor. That's fine 
with me. 
MR. BERGER: Thank you. 
THE COURT: All right. Great. Thank you so much. 
NR. GOLDBZROZR: Thank you, Judge. 
(PROCEEDINGS CONCLUDED) 
is the 22nd. How 
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CERTIFICATE 
I, LOUANNE RAWLS, certify that I yea authorised to 
and did digitally report the foregoing Proceedings and that the 
transcript is a true and complete record of my notes. 
Dated this 10th day of June, 2009. 
LOUANN2 RAWLS, 1100578 
EFTA00233761
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June 10, 2009 
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alert 
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copy 
EFTA00233762
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June 10, 2009 
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12:2 13:2 
EFTA00233763
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Proceedings 
June 10, 2009 
3 
10:10,11,21 
13:10 14:17 
14:18 
gives 
8:9,10 
go 
hear 
5:8 
heard 
10:25 11:6 
hearing 
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improperly 
13:4 
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12:11 14:10 
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longest 
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14:17,19,20 Honor 
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EFTA00233764
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Proceedings 
June 10, 2009 
4 
11:25 
moved 
6:11 
moving 
4:22 5:20 
N 
N 
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name 
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8:20 
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represent... 
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request 
EFTA00233765
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Proceedings 
June 10, 2009 
5 
5:1 7:4 8:4 
9:23 
require 
8:3 
requirements 
13:8 
respect 
8:24 
respectfully 
9:23 
result 
7:8 
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5:25 
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3:15 
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11:15 
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10:8 
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10:7 12:20 
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8:1 
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12:23,24 
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9:17,18 
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EFTA00233766
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Proceedings 
June 10, 2009 
6 
trying 
5:16 
twelve 
12:5 
two 
6:10 9:1 
12:15 13:19 
15:11 
types 
14:7 
6:17 
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1:21,25 2:4 
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we're 
9:17,19 11:6 
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5:4 
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written 
14:15 
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1:4 
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1.4 
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1:18 3:6 
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15:14 
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2.3 
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ultimately 
7:25 
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13:22 
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12:24 
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4:17 6:11 
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4:8 
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12:13 14:18 
year 
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yelling 
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vacate 
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zealous 
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11:25 
EFTA00233767
Page 440 / 549
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE FIFTEENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR FAIR BEACH COUNTY, 
FLORIDA 
CRDDNAI. DIVISION 
STATE OF FLORIDA, 
Plaintiff, 
vo. JEFFREY EPSTEIN, 
Defendant. 
PROCEEDINGS HELD BEFORE THE HONORARTI. JEFFREY j 
COLHATH 
JUNE 10, 2009 11:00 A.M. - 11:25 
DAUS BEACH coutent COURTHOUSE 
WEST PALM BEACH, FLORIDA 
Reported by Doyenne Pawls Notary Public, State of 
Florida West Palm Beach Office *100578 
EFTA00233768
Pages 421–440 / 549