EFTA00798337

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 
1 
I 
3 
INDEX 
FIFTEENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT, IN 
2 
AND FOR PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA 
2 
Videotaped Depoeitien ofWILLIAMBERGER 
Page lb. 
Case No. 502009CA040800XXXXMB 
4 
JEFFREY EPSTEIN, 
5 
Direct Examination by Hr. Scarola 
5 
Plaintiff/Counter-Defendant, 
4 
Cross-Lamination by Mr. Lick 
SS 
Vs. 
7
Redirect Examination by Mr. Scarola 
131 
SCOTT 0.0TNSTBIN, individually; 
0 
Rocones-Exaninatien by Mr. Lick 
138 
BRADLEY EDWARDS, Individually, 
9 
Further Redirect Examination by Mr. Scarola 
160 
Defendants/Counter-Plaintiff. 
10 
Certificate of Oath 
170 
/ 
11 
Certificate of Reporter 
171 
12 
13 
PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT INDEX 
VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION 
le 
OF 
WILLIAM BERGEA 
15 
No. 
Descriptich 
Page No 
16 
1 
Razosbadt Cctplaint 
OS 
17 
2 
(Premarked but not mentioned during deposition.) 
Taken on Behalf of Defendant/Counter-Plaintiff 
IS 
3 
Cceplaint in current case 
118 
19 
Friday, February 23rd, 2028 
20 
9:27 
. - 1:32 
. 
21 
DEFENDANTS/COUSTER-PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT IM3EX 
2255 Glades Road, Suite 218-A 
22 
(No exhibits were tacked.) 
Boca Raton, Florida 33431 
13 
24 
25 
2 
4 
1 
Examination of the witness taken before 
1 
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the 23rd day 
2 
Sonja D. Hall 
2 
of February 2028. The time is approximately 
Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 
9 
1665 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard, Suite 1001 
$ 
9:27 
West Palm Beach, FL 33401 
4 
This is the videotaped deposition of 
4 
1561) 471-2995 
5 
 
 Berger in the matter of Jeffrey 
5 
APPEARANCES: 
6 
For Plaintiff: 
4 
Epstein versus Scott Rothstein and Bradley 
7
LINK 4 ROCKENBACH, 
. 
Edwards. 
1555 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard, Suite 301 
0 
9 
West Palm Beach, FL 33401 
By SCOTT J. LINK, ESQUIRE 
, 
This deposition is being hold 2255 
Glades Road, Suite 218-A, Boca Piton, 
:0 
Florida 23431. 
10 
For Plaintiff: 
11 
DARREN K. INDYKE, PLLC 
Ii
My name is Manuel Santiago. I am the 
575 Lexington Avenue 
12 
VICIOD9taptier representing Above a Beyond 
12 
New York, NY 10022 
By DARREM K. INDERE, ESQUIRE 
29 
Reprographics.
IS 
24 
Will the attorneys please announce 
14 
For Defendant/Counter-Plaintiff: 
15 
their appearances for the record? 
15 
SEARCY, DENNEY, SCAROLA, BARNHART 4 
SHIPLEY, 
. 
16 
MR. LINK: Sure. Scott Link on behalf 
26 
2139 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard 
17 
of plaintiff, Jeffrey Epstein. 
West Palm Beach, FL 33409 
27 
By JACK SCAROLA, ESQUIRE 
19 
MR. INDYKE: Darren Indyke on behalf of 
la 
19 
plaintiff, Jeffrey Epstein. 
19 
ALSO PRESENT 
20 
MR. SCAROLA: My name is Jack Scarola. 
20 
Above 4. Beyond Reprographics 
2161 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard 
21 
I am counsel on behalf of Brad Edwards. 
II 
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 
22 
Brad Edwards is plaintiff in the 
By Manuel Santiago, videographer 
22 
23 
counterclaim in which this case -- excuse me 
23 
24 
-- in which this deposition is being taken. 
24 
25 
25 
Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 
EFTA00798337

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7 
2 
4 
THEREUPON, 
WILLIAM BEAZER, 
being a witness in the notice heretofore 
and being first duly sworn in the above cause, 
S 
testified on hla oath as follows: 
THE WITNESS: I do. 
DIRECT EXAMINATION 
4 
BY HR. SCAROLA: 
• 
Q 
Could you please introduce yourself to the 
10 
ladles and gentlemen of the jury, before whom this 
II 
deposition is likely to be shown? 
12 
A 
My name is William Joseph Berger. 
13 
Q 
And where la the deposition being taken 
14 
today, Mr. Berger? 
II 
A 
It's being taken in the Law Office of Weirs, 
IS 
Handler 4 Cornwell, the firm that 1 work for. 
I7 
IS 
If 
20 
2l 
22 
2) 
24 
25 
O 
What is your capacity with the firm? 
A 
I an an attorney with the firm. 
Q 
How tong have you been employed by Kelm, 
Handler 
Cornwell. 
A 
Since approximately December of 2009. 
Q 
You understand that this deposition is 
being taken in a case in which Bradley Edward➢ has 
brought suit again➢t Jeffrey Epstein for malicious 
prosecution, correct? 
Of Florida graduate school and got a master's degree in 
2 
philosophy. I then applied to trio university of Miami 
) 
law school. And I went to law school iron 1972 to 
4 
1975, when I graduated the University of Miami law 
5 
school. 
4 
Q 
Tell us how you came t0 select philosophy 
▪ 
an a major? 
• 
A 
How such flaw do you have? 
• 
Q 
Well, I have a lot of tine, but I expect 
10 
that the jury would like you to be relatively brief. 
11 
A 
I have also had a very longstanding interest 
12 
in the ideas, concepts, fundamental principles, and I 
13 
was attracted to philosophy. 
II 
CI 
All right, 
sir. 
Were your plans when you 
17 
chose that major to eventually go to law school? 
IS 
17 
IS 
A 
No. 
0 
what were your plans? 
A 
I was going to open up a philosophy shop and 
Is 
tell people if Choy existed or not. 
20 
Q 
sounds like an endeavor that was not likely 
21 
to enable you to support a family? 
22 
A 
Actually, It was teaching. I was going to go 
2) 
into teaching, and then I decided to go into law 
24 
school. 
25 
Actually, law seamed to me to be -- I have 
2 
A 
Yes. 
O 
And can you tell us, 
understanding 
3 
that the case is set to be tried the second two weeks 
• 
in arch, whore you are going CO be the second two 
• 
weeks Of Mirth? 
4 
6 
A 
I will have surgery out of town March 5, and 
/ 
I will bo rehabilitating or recovering probably for the 
• 
resit of the month. 
9 
0 
All right, sir, thank you. We wish you 
10 
beat of luck with your surgery. Sorry that you are 
II 
not going t0 be with us at trial in person. But 
12 
that's the reason why wo are taking this videotaped 
1) 
deposition today. 
14 
A 
Thank you. 
15 
Q 
I want, before we begin dealing with the 
If 
issues involved in this case, co talk to you a little 
17 
bit about your professional history. So let'➢ start 
In 
with higher education. 
19 
Where did you go to school and what did 
20 
you study? 
31 
A 
I went to college for a year at Syracuse, 
22 
then I transferred to the University of Florida. I 
23 
graduated from the University of Florida with a 
24 
bachelor's 
degree. 
I had a degree in philosophy, and 
25 
that was to 1971. And then I stayed at the University 
I 
always thought of law a➢ the combination of 
2 
philosophy in action. That's what, to ma, law is, 
3 
the application of principles to real life 
4 
situations. 
0 
Where were you born and raised? 
4 
A 
I wan born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. 
7 
And at the age of ono year, my family moved to Miami 
• 
Beach, and I grew up on Miami. Hooch. 
9 
Q 
Do you have a family of your own now? 
10 
A 
Yea. Linda and I have been married for 47 
IL 
years and we have three daughters. 
12 
Q 
Let's pick up with your graduation from law 
1) 
14 
15 
If 
17 
IS 
19 
30 
8 
school in 1975, and tell ua what you did after 
graduating. 
A 
From 1975 to 1997 I was an attorney in Miami, 
and I wan with several law firm during those 22 years. 
I was with the Greenberg Traurig law fire; the Fine 
Jacobson law firms a firm called Hughes Hubbard t Read, 
which is a New York firm that had a *Maul office. And 
I had my own practice in between. So that takes me to 
21 
1997. 
22 
Then in 1997 Linda and I decided that we 
33 
Were going to ROVO to Boca Raton, and we did. I 
21 
joined this fire in 1997, the Rehm Handler firm. 
25 
was here for a year, and then I started ny own 
Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 
EFTA00798338

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11 
practice, just a solo practice until 2002. 
2 
And in 2002, I ran for circuit court Judge 
2 
hero in Palm Beach County and I was elected. I 
4 
served a➢ a circuit judge in Palm Beach County from 
• 
January of 2003 until Juno of 2008. 
Q 
Lot's talk a little 
bit about the nature of 
7 
your practice before you were honored with a position 
s 
on the bench. Toll us, if you would, please, about 
* 
what kind of legal work you did in those decades 
It 
before you became a circuit court judge? 
11 
12 
13 
state and federal. 
In the 190. I started to focus on 
13 
employment discrimination law whore I represented 
14 
the employe*a who had been fired or disciplined. 
I7 
Those were cases against their employers. And so if 
Is 
I had any kind of concentration, it was in that 
IS 
area. 
Probably a third of my practice was in that 
20 
area until I was elected to the bench. 
21 
Q 
During that period of tine before taking 
22 
the bench, did you focus your practice exclusively on 
22 
representing either plaintiff➢ or defendants? 
24 
You told us that your employment law 
25 
practice was focused on representing plaintiffs. 
A 
I handled lawsuits of people suing other 
',maple, companion suing companion. 
General-type work, 
Q 
Tell us atittle 
about them, if you would, 
2 
please. 
A 
My daughter Marla is 43 today. 
It'➢ her 
4 
birthday. 
she's a mental health counselor. 
S 
Unfortunately, her -- in the sense that she specializes 
4 
in grieving, she administers mental health counseling 
1 
to -- particularly to children -- she works for a 
a 
charity called Tomorrow'➢ Rainbow in Broward County. 
/ 
she has her hands full right now with the shooting. 
10 
My daughter Lauren is 41, and oho'➢ a 
II 
social director -- rather, an activitie➢ director 
12 
for a large temple here in Boca Raton. 
13 
My youngest daughter is Brooke, who is 29 
14 
years old. 
Brooke is looking co find herself, so 
she's back at hone now, and wo are going to nee 
where She goes next. 
Q 
I have a few of those myself. 
IC 
Tell us, if you would, please, how you 
13 
14 
If 
went about addressing the financial issues that 
20 
arose in '07 and '08 that compelled you to leave the 
2L 
bench? 
22 
A 
I decided I needed to go back to private 
23 
practice. 
I took a substantial cut in pay to become a 
24 
Judge, and we realized that going into it. 
But it was 
25 
just something that needed to be addressed as a result 
10 
I 
What about prior to that? 
2 
A 
well, I did -- I did -- oven during that 
3 
time, I did represent Gone employers, so I did 
4 
represent both aides. 
In other types of canon, there wan no 
4 
exclusive representation of plaintiffs 
or defendants 
7 
in what we would call civil matters, comeorcial 
t 
disputes and those types of things. 
9 
Q 
What motivated you to nook a position on 
10 
Il 
12 
13 
14 
15 
14 
11 
the bunch? 
A 
Maybe the same thing that motivated no to go 
into philosophy. 
It was something whore I could 
actually apply principles, legal principles to 
real -life situations and deal with people's Isamu➢ and 
really do something for society. 
And it was something 
that was vary rewarding when I was on the bench. 
O 
What were the circumstances under which you 
IS 
left? 
IS 
A 
well, unfortunately in 2007/2008, wo wore 
24 
hit -- my family wan hit with the recession, no w0 
21 
had -- it was a serious financial ➢ltuation for us, so 
22 
I decided I needed to go back into private practice. 
23 
Q 
You told ua about your 47-year marriage. 
24 
Do you have Children? 
33 
A 
Yea, three daughters. 
12 
of the recension, so I decided to look to go back into 
2 
practice. 
And I was -- I interviewed with a couple of 
3 
largo firms. 
4 
Q 
roll us, before wo leave focus on your 
3 
Judicial career, what you did during those five to 
4 
nix yearn? 
7 
A 
well, in Palm Beach County, the circuit 
• 
court, which is the higher-level trial court, La 
• 
divided into five divisions: civil, 
criminal, family, 
10 
probate and Juvenile. 
In the five to six years that I 
IL 
was a Judge, I served in the civil division for ono 
12 
year, then I nerved to the family division involving 
13 
divorcoa, custody fights for two and a half years. 
And 
14 
that was in the branch court in Delray Beach. 
And I 
15 
was the administrative judge for the Delray Beach 
14 
Courthouse. 
11 
And then the last approximately two year➢ 
IS 
that I was on the bench, I Served in the criminal 
19 
division, so I presided over Colonial/capital case➢ 
24 
for two years. 
21 
Q 
I know from the review of your professional 
22 
sestina that you currently, in addition to doing trial 
23 
work, also do soma appellate work; is that correct? 
24 
A 
Yea. 
33 
O 
Did you have any app 
 responsibilities 
Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 
EFTA00798339

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while you were a judge? 
1 
A 
Yes. Judges that are circuit court judges 
3 
have appellate responsibility for cases from the county 
4 
court being appealed to the circuit court, and I worked 
S 
on those. And then I was also invited by the Fourth 
f 
District Court of Appeal, which is our appellate court 
/ 
for Palm Beach County, Broward County and the Treasure 
• 
Coast. 
I was invited ono simmer to sit on -- to 
10 
sit on that court in place of a judge who was on 
11 
vacation, Judge Barry Stone. So I served on the 
12 
Fourth District and served with a panel of judges 
13 
and heard quite a number of cafes and wrote several 
14 
decisions for the Fourth District. 
Q 
The jury may not be familiar with the 
14 
procedure, but when the appellate court reviews 
17 
decision➢ that are rendered and jury trial re➢ult➢ at 
18 
the trial court level, how many judges aro involved 
It 
in that review process? 
13 
20 
A 
Three. 
21 
Q 
And you then wore one of three panel 
21 
members in the review of multiple cases that were 
23 
heard before the Fourth District 
Court of Appeal? 
24 
A 
Yea. 
2S 
Q 
Did you ever have the responsibility 
of 
1 
1 
3 
4
S 
a 
circuit 
court judge➢. 
Q 
In going through your career, 
we had 
reached the point where in 2008 you faced the 
economic reality 
of having to leave the bench. 
where 
did you than go? 
A 
I was hired by the Rothstein, 
Rosonfoldt a 
Adler firm. 
O 
How did that cone about? 
A 
As I said, 
I was interviewing with two firms. 
10 
There wore two largo firma that had offices in Palm 
Beach County -- largo offices In Palm Beach County. 
12 
Neon wo moved up hove in 199?, my daughter 
13 
Brooke got to know Stuart Rosonfoldt,a daughter, and 
14 
we became socially acquainted with Stuart Rosenfeldt 
13 
and his wife. So I know him from 2997 until - wo 
-
14 
aro at 2008. I knew him that entire time. 
In fact, when I went on the bench in 2003, 
18 
I referred to Stuart my employment case➢ that I had. 
It 
I had a great deal of respect for Stuart. 
20 
Stuart was a very prominent attorney in 
21 
the employment law area. No wrote for the Florida 
21 
Bar the teat that lawyers take to become board 
23 
certified in labor law. lie had an excellent 
24 
reputation in that area. 
2S 
And Stuart, I would see ha every once in 
11 
14 
1 
writing opinions on behalf of the court, oven though 
2 
you were an a➢sociate judge and not a regular member 
3 
of the Court? 
4 
A 
Yea, I wrote several divisions that were 
3 
published and -- for the courts -- for the court of 
4 
appeal. 
7 
Q 
Did you also, during the course of those 
▪ 
years, when you were serving as a circuit court judge, 
9 
receive the honor of having been selected by the 
10 
chief justice of the Florida Supremo Court to fulfill 
II 
12 
13 
14 
any responsibilities on behalf of the Supremo Court 
of Florida? 
A 
Yes. The position of chief justice rotates 
among the justices in the court. And at the time the 
IS 
chief justice of the Florida Supreme Court was Fred 
If 
Lowia. And Justice Lewis appointed me to a ➢tatewide 
17 
panel conflating of laypersons, judges at the trial 
18 
level, and appellate judges and retired Supreme Court 
19 
justices on a cormittoo to study how the public Could 
20 
130 batter informed in voting for trial judges. 
21 
In Florida, county and circuit court aro 
22 
elected. Appellate judges are appointed by the 
33 
governor. And the purpose of the panel was to deal 
24 
with how the public could bo bettor informed in 
33 
decisions of -- towards voting for county and 
16 
a while, and ho would toll mo about this firm that 
2 
ha was now with, Rothstein, Rosenfeldt 4 Adler, and 
3 
it was upbeat. Be portrayed it as a vary dynamic 
4 
firm. 
So during CM time I was looking to go 
4 
back into private practice talking to other firms, I 
7 
road In the paper that Rothstein, Roacmfoldt 4 Adler 
• 
had just hired the former mayor of Boca Raton Stove 
9 
Abraea to open up a Boca Raton office. 
10 
I 
12 
13 
14 
IS 
If 
17 
Now, I knew Stove Abrams. Ho was my 
mayor. NO was our mayor here In Boca Baton during 
9/11, and I had a groat deal of respect for hie. 
Ne had an anthrax attack here in Boca at 
the National Enquirer building. And Mayor Abrams 
was like Mayor Giuliani for Boca Baton. He was 
vary -- showed great leadership skills. 
So when I saw 
and then ho was not the 
IS 
mayor anymore, of course, in 2009. But when I saw 
19 
that the firm was hiring -- had hired Steve Abrams 
20 
to open up an office 
here, which would be a 
21 
brand-new office, 
not a branch office of a big firm 
22 
that had -- that already had a largo number of 
23 
people in a branch office, 
it 
just seemed like an 
24 
opportunity 
I needed to explore. 
23 
So I called Stuart. 
And I said, Stuart, 
I 
Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 
EFTA00798340

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19 
would like to talk to your fire about -- I told him 
2 
I was thinking of leaving the bench. And I asked if 
3 
I could be interviewed by the firm to work with 
4 
Stove Abrams in opening up the office here. 
5 
Q 
Did you then interview with the firm of 
4 
Rothstein, Rosenfoldt a Adler? 
7 
A 
Yea. Stuart and I talked, and then ho 
4 
introduced ma to Scott Rothstein, and that was the 
• 
interview I had. 
10 
Rothstein and I talked for about a half 
II 
hour in his office, and he made me an offer and I 
12 
accepted it. 
13 
Q 
Which office wad it at which you were 
14 
interviewed by Mr. Rothstein? 
A 
The firm didn't have a Boca location. It had 
14 
a Fort Lauderdale location on East Las Olaa Boulevard, 
12 
➢o it was in that suit of offices there, in hi➢ office. 
Q 
roll ua about that suit of offices. 
A 
Noll, at the tine the -- I call it RRA for 
20 
Rothstein, Rosonfoldt a Adler -- MA had -- if 
not 
21 
mistaken, it had one and a half floors of that 
22 
high-rise office building on East Las Olam. And 
23 
Rothstein's office was on the floor -- the main floor 
24 
whore they had the entire floor. 
25 
Q 
Describe the offices. 
A 
Probably maybe double the total, if you 
2 
counted the lawyers. So it probably had 120 to 140 
S 
4 
omployoos. 
Q 
What happened to the aim of the firm 
during the period of tiro that you were associated 
with the firm? 
A 
Tho firm did grow. It also -- I moan, it 
a 
grow in Fort Lauderdale. We also hired 
wo 
* 
eventually did open up a Boca Raton office where Nayor 
ic 
Abram and I practiced. 
He had one attorney along with 
11 
us that was full -Cleo there and another attorney that 
12 
was part-time. 
If 
And then the firm al➢o acquired an office 
14 
in Venezuela and maybe in Tallaha➢lee. 
not sure 
13 
about that. No also had an office In Washington, 
it 
III. that wasn't staffed -- fully ➢taffed. There 
12 
might have boon one other office possibly in Now 
IS 
York. I don't recall. 
is 
Q 
You told us about knowing Mr. Rosonfoldt 
20 
and knowing Mayor Abrams. Wore there any other 
2L 
lawyers working in that office who you either know or 
22 
know of? 
23 
A 
Yea. And that'➢ one of the reasons that 
24 
chose that firm. Thera were several people. I learned 
25 
that -- I think front al discus➢ion with Scott Rothstein 
18 
A 
Noll, the offices wore a number -- you had a 
2 
waiting room, you had a number of attorneys' office➢, 
3 
and sort of common  
. Sono of the offices were 
4 
bigger, some wore corner offices, depending on the 
3 
attorney's position with the firm, and Rothstein had 
4 
his own office, which, of course, was larger than 
7 
others. 
• 
Q 
Descrlbo Kr. Rothsteln's office for the 
9 
10 
II 
12 
13 
14 
15 
If 
11 
IS 
19 
30 
31 
benefit of the jury, if you would please. 
A 
Noll, it was a big office. It got bigger 
later. It was renovated in 2009 after I was hired. At 
the time, it wa➢ -- iC wa➢ not an overly large office, 
but it wa➢ clearly the office of the attorney that wan 
the named partner in the firm -- the first named 
partner in the firm. 
Q 
How about once the office got renovated? 
Did you have occasion to over be in Mr. Rothstein's 
office after the renovations? 
A 
Yeah. It wan either maybe triple the size 
than it had been before, lavishly decorated. 
Q 
How largo wan the firm at the time you 
22 
joined it? Now many lawyers, approximately? 
33 
34 
A 
It had about 60 or 70 lawyers at the time. 
• 
And total number of omployooa, could you 
25 
estimate that for ua? 
20 
when he interviewed no -- Judge Barry Stone, the sane 
2 
appellate judge that I had taken his place when I sat 
3 
on the Fourth District -- that ha had been hired by the 
4 
firm, and he had either already started or he was going 
3 
to start. 
6 
Judge Stone baa a tremendous reputation. 
• 
I think he was Cho longest sitting judge on the 
S 
Fourth District. 
In cases whore I wa➢ -- as a circuit court 
10 
judge whore I was reversed by the Fourth District 
IL 
Court of Appeal ho dissented from those nave aaaaa 
12 
several times. 
13 
15 
If 
17 
IS 
Q 
So ho had a special place in your heart? 
A 
Right. Right. 
So I had a groat deal of 
respect for Judge Stone. 
Another attorney, who is Gary Farmer Jr., 
Gary Farmer Jr. is the ➢on of Gary Farmer Sr. 
And 
Cary Farmer Sr. wan also a judge on the Fourth 
19 
District Court of Appeal. 
And I knew his son was an 
30 
active, prominent personal injury attorney and class 
21 
action attorney, consumer attorney. Ho had just 
22 
settled a gigantic, hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars 
23 
whistletdower case against the pharmaceutical 
24 
industry. Noll, that was very impressive. So Gary 
25 
either had joined the firm or was going to join the 
Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 
EFTA00798341

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23 
firm. I knew that. 
2 
In addition to Mayor Abrans and -- there 
3 
was also an attorney named Steve Lippman, who I did 
4 
not know. But I got to know him. I heard of him. 
• 
He had quite a number of financial institutions a➢ 
clients. So when I joined the firm, the firm was 
7 
representing Citicorp, Walla Fargo, JCPenney, Ed 
4 
Morse Automotive dealer➢hip.. It was a crui➢e 
* 
line -- I forget the name of it, but we represented 
10 
a cruise line. 
II 
Robert &ache], who was an attorney who 
12 
was at that fire. Roach.' represented police 
13 
unions. So we had as clients the union➢ that 
14 
represented police officers. And I think those are 
Is 
the attorneys that I knew going into the firm. 
Q 
Do you remember the approximate month that 
I/ 
you actually joined RRA? 
14 
IS 
It 
A 
Julie of 2009. 
sorry. June of 2000. 
Q 
You remained with the fire, then, [or haw 
20 
long? 
2L 
A 
Until probably around November 8th to 10th, 
22 
something like that, 2009. So June 2008 to November of 
23 
2009. 
24 
Q 
Approximately 18 months -- about year and a 
25 
half? 
represented another law firm in a breakup of firma 
2 
And the Scherer firm waa owed over a million  
4 
5 
4 
7 
• 
In Coos. And the client, the other law firm, was 
reneging on paying that. And Scherer won at the 
trial level, and then Judge Stone and I defended 
that judgment and protected that judgment on appeal, 
and we were ultimately successful. 
So you had a very prominent attorney, who, 
* 
ironically later, became an attorney for clients 
10 
suing the firm after the firm'! demise. But at the 
II 
time, Bill Scherer -- I was very impressed with the 
12 
fact that Bill Scherer was a client of the firm. 
13 
And he spoke publicly in -- I remember a newspaper 
14 
article on the Internet that Michael Mayo, I 
15 
believe, with the Sun Sentinel, interviewed Bill 
14 
Scherer about Rothstein. And I remember Scherer 
17 
saying that -- he ➢aid, I don't know what Scott 
10 
Rothstein la doing, but whatever in it I like it. 
II 
He said, I like it so much that my firm has given 
20 
him hla major case. So that was -- I thought that 
21 
was a testament to the firm's reputation. 
22 
Q 
When you joined RRA, how was your position 
23 
with the firm, your relationship with the firm 
24 
publicly described? what position did you have? 
25 
A 
Noll, I had -- I was called a shareholder. 
2 
3 
a 
4 
9 
10 
II 
12 
13 
14 
15 
IS 
Il 
IS 
It 
22 
A 
Yeah. 
O 
All right. 
At that time you joined the fire and 
through the end of October of 2009, how would you 
describe the perception of the firm, the firm's 
reputation in the South Florida legal community? 
A 
I think it was in very high regard by the 
legal community. When I joined the firm, I looked up 
ea the Internet, articles about RRA. And it was a firm 
that had -- that was very much involved in civic and 
charitable work, giving, that sort of thing. 
Rothstein was awarded many honors by 
charities for his work, charitable work. The 
attorneys that I associated with at the firm I 
thought were very, very high-caliber -- extremely 
high-caliber. I got to know more people there, of 
course. 
One of the clients of the firm was the 
Conrad Scherer firm. The Conrad Scherer firm was 
20 
ran by Bill Scherer. Bill Scherer la one of most 
21 
prominent lawyers in South Florida, certainly in 
32 
Seaward County. And he was a client of the firm. 
33 
In [act, Judge Stone and I worked on a 
24 
case that he had with u➢. It was a major cane for 
25 
that law firm. It was -- that law firm had 
24 
The firm had associates, partners and shareholders. I 
2 
wasn't really an equity owner in the firm. It was --
3 
When I was with the Pine Jacobson firm I 
4 
was designated as a partner. I wasn't really an 
5 
equity owner in that. So I had the -- that was sort 
4 
of -- there were probably 10 people that were 
7 
designated as shareholders. 
Then under that -- ➢o we had sort of a 
• 
mere senior role with the firm. 
10 
Q 
Was it unusual, based upon the experience 
that you have described, for law firma to de➢ignate 
12 
employeen of the fire a➢ being shareholders or 
13 
partners without those individual! having an equity 
14 
interest in the firm and ownership interest? 
A 
No. I had seen that before. As I ➢aid, the 
19 
Fine Jacobson firm was a ?0-attorney fire in Miami that 
was a vary, very prominent fire In the 1980s. And I 
was a partner with that firm, but I did not have an 
equity interest in it. 
20 
Now, afterward➢ when RR. collapsed, 
21 
obviously among all of the things that all of ua at 
32 
the firm went through in terms of being interviewed 
33 
by law enforcement and that sort of thing, I was 
34 
also interviewed by the Florida Bar. And one of the 
25 
points they raised was the fact that I was being 
II 
15 
17 
IS 
19 
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27 
1 
called a shareholder and yet didn't have an equity 
2 
Interact In the firm. 
3 
I learned from the Bar, really, that that 
O 
was not -- not that It was widely -- a widely used 
5 
practice, but it was ono that the Bar was well aware 
i 
of and did not discipline the attorneys, to my 
7 
knowledge, certainly not In my case, for having been 
• 
called a shareholder and not having equity. 
But I learner!d from that inquiry that this 
10 
is a practice that seemed to be common, ao to speak, 
II 
throughout the  
12 
0 
You have told us that your relationship 
13 
with Rita ended in early November of 2009. Tell ua 
14 
about the circumstances under which that occurre➢. 
II  
A 
well, the exact circumstances are that the 
14 
firm had already collapsed. November 1 was a Sunday. 
17 
And that's when I learned that there were problems, and 
le 
that Rothstein had left the country. 
November 2 was a Monday. And the attorney 
20 
that the firm hired co represent it in this 
21 
Rothstein problem and who had filed a lawsuit for 
22 
the firm against Rothstein immediately -- Kendall 
23 
Coffey was the attorney -- I stayed on for a couple 
24 
more day➢, probably a week, 10 days, something like 
2S 
that, and then I left. 
i 
effect. 
He stepped into the ➢hoes of the law firm, and 
2 
he was now responsible for -- the firm had clients. No 
was responsible for collecting whatever foes could be 
O 
collected for paying aqsloyees, for seeing that there 
5 
was a transition from the firm to other attorneys 
4 
outside the fire to take over those matters, and also 
1 
to collect, 
against 
whoever was responsible, 
money to 
• 
re -- in effect to reimburse the firm for money that 
* 
was stolen from the firm. So Herb Stettin had that 
IC 
role. 
11 
Q 
So tell us, if you would -- you have 
12 
described the fact that the firm collapsed. How did 
13 
your knowledge of the circumstances surrounding that 
Is 
collapse evolve? 
II 
A 
Well, it evolved very quickly. On Saturday 
14 
October 31st, I was copied on an email that said --
17 
that was -- that didn't have broad circulation within 
I➢ 
the firm that said something about, Where's Scott? 
Is 
Something like that. 
20 
Q 
Scott meaning Scott Rothstein? 
21 
A 
Yeah. Two or three days before that, maybe 
22 
Wednesday of that prior week, at the and of October, 
2) 
there was a charitable event at his home and he didn't 
2• 
attend. He wasn't there. Nis wife was there and 
25 
dozens and dozens, if not over 200 people were there. 
26 
1 
The firm had basically collapsed. We 
2 
weren't getting a paycheck. I felt I owed it co the 
3 
people in the firm -- we atilt had employees that 
4 
weren't getting paid but atilt had some benefits --
5 
maybe they were getting 
paid somewhat. The 
• 
attorney➢ weren't getting paid. I felt I needed to 
7 
stay there for scam period. 
And Herb Stettin had been appointed by 
t 
Judge Streitfeld a➢ a receiver for the firm. I knew 
10 
Herb Stettin for years and I felt some loyalty to 
him to stay for a while, at leant. But then it got 
12 
to the point where I had to leave. I had to get a 
13 
paycheck, so I left probably around November 7th or 
14 
10th, something like that. 
• 
Explain to the jury, if you would, please, 
li 
what a receiver la. What was the responsibility that 
Mr. Stettin was appointed to fulfill by circuit court 
Judge --
A 
Streltfeld. 
O 
Streitfeld. 
11 
IS 
17 
Ii 
It 
30 
21 
A 
A receiver la somebody who is appointed by 
22 
the court -- and It's typically an attorney -- to take 
23 
charge and to basically run whatever the company is or 
24 
the business that is now in receivership. And that was 
25 
the law firm. So he was -- he became the law firm, in 
28 
It was a big event, but he wa➢n't there. It raised 
2 
questions. 
Where was he? 
3 
So on Saturday I saw an email that ➢aid he 
4 
has left 
the country. 
Something like that. And 
5 
then Sunday morning or Sunday afternoon, I got an 
• 
email that -- I forget who sent it -- but said to 
7 
re, Ma are going to have a meeting among -- I think 
S 
the people -- the shareholders 
at the fire that 
9 
afternoon or evening, and I went to that. 
10 
So there were probably about seven or 
IL 
eight or nine of u➢ there. Somebody -- maybe Stuart 
12 
13 
IS 
Rosenfeldt -- had already hired Kendall Coffey, who 
was -- Kendall la a Miami attorney. Kendall and I 
practiced together at Greenberg Traurig in the '70a. 
Kendall became the united States attorney for the 
If 
District of Florida. 
I/ 
A presidential appointment? 
A 
Pre➢ident Clinton hired him. 
And then Kendall, at sans point, 
left 
that 
30 
position 
and he we­ out in private practice. 
21 
So Kendall we­ there at this meeting, 
22 
along with seven or eight of the other attorneys 
in 
23 
the firm, and that'➢ when I learned that Scott 
24 
Rothstein was in Morocco. And I was shocked. 
And 
25 
also -- because we were there for a couple hours, I 
IS 
It 
Southern 
0 
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al➢o learned that our tru➢t account➢ -- and those 
1 
are bank accounts that contain client money on deal➢ 
3 
that are pending, deal➢ that are settled, but the 
4 
money he➢n't been di➢tributed -- million➢ of 
5 
 
 -- that those account➢ had been looted, they 
4 
were empty. 
I learned that that night. 
So those 
7 
were the circumstances where I learned that the firm 
4 
had basically imploded. 
Q 
Did there coma a point in time when you 
10 
became aware that Scott Roth➢tein was operating a 
11 
Renzi scheme out or the law firm? 
12 
A 
I learned that maybe a day or two after 
13 
November 1st, and I think I read it in the paper. 
14 
4) 
Before the disclosures that you have 
Is 
described to us, the raiding of the trust account and 
14 
the operation of the Moral ➢chme, having been at 
15 
that the firm for approximately a year and a half, 
II 
did you over have oven the slightest suspicion that 
It 
Scott Rothstein or anyone also associated with 
20 
Roth➢tein, Rosenfeldt t Adler wore engaged in any 
2L 
kind of improper activity? 
21 
A 
No. 
23 
Q 
Evan in retrospect, as you sit here today, 
24 
can you look back on that time period and say, You 
25 
know, I should have realized there was something 
that were being prosecuted on behalf of throe young 
1 
woman: M., 
B.N. and Jane Doe. 
And w➢ will refer to 
them when I talk to you about them in that ➢ame way, 
4 
referring to sham by those initial➢ and that 
5 
pseudonym. 
4 
Describe how it i➢ you cam, to ➢hare 
ro➢ponsibility for those ca➢es with Brad. 
A 
I don't remember the first -- my first 
s 
introduction to the ca➢e➢. 0bviou➢ly, there wan a 
10 
meeting. Obviously, I met Brad for maybe the first 
11 
time, and I was -- I wa➢ asked -- I don't remember by 
12 
whom -- to work with Brad on these case➢ I think 
13 
principally becau➢e they were ➢ignificant ca➢e➢. 
14 
I had been practicing for quite a while. 
15 
I had been a Judg➢ in Palm Beach County and had 
14 
practiced in Palm Beach County. 
The fife was In 
15 
Fort Lauderdal➢. Brad wa➢ a Broward County lawy➢r, 
la 
I think, primarily. 
And I had thi➢ connection with 
is 
Palm Beach County. 
20 
Q 
Where were the case➢ pending? 
21 
A 
The canes were pending in Palm Beach County. 
22 
So there was a natural Lit for me to work on the➢e 
23 
cases, and I think that'➢ why I was brought in to work 
24 
with him. 
25 
Q 
You described these as significant cases. 
30 
1 
wrong that wa➢ going on here? 
2 
A 
No. 
3 
0 
Did all of thi➢ new➢ coma as a complete and 
4 
total shock to you? 
5 
A 
Absolutely. 
0 
Do you know Brad Edwards? 
A 
Yes. 
5 
Q 
When and how did you first moot Brad? 
9 
A 
I met him at the firm sometime in the first 
10 
three months, something like that, of 2009, after I had 
11 
been with the firm [or about almost a year. 
I met him 
12 
there. 
13 
Q 
Well, the jury will have been told, by the 
14 
time that your to➢timony is played to then, that Brad 
15 
joined the firm con➢iderably after you joined and wan 
14 
there for a period of about five months. 
So you were 
17 
there for almo➢t a year before Brad joined the firm, 
correct? 
19 
A 
Right. 
20 
0 
Did you ever have occasion to ➢hare any 
21 
ro➢ponsibilities with Brad Edwards. 
22 
A 
Ye➢. I believe the only matter Brad and I 
23 
worked on together, if 
not mistaken, was the -- or 
24 
were the three lawsuits against Nr. Epstein. 
25 
Q 
We have identified those case➢ as case➢ 
IS 
32 
I 
What doe➢ that mean? 
2 
A 
Well, they involve terrible thing➢ that 
I 
happened co these three young women when they were 
4 
minors, ➢o they were significant in the ➢ense that the 
5 
personal injury to them wan enormou➢. They were al➢o 
4 
significant ca➢es in terms of what their potential 
damages were in terms of dollars. 
0 
Why? 
9 
A 
Because jurie➢ are asked to use their common 
10 
sense and their reasoning to come up with a dollar 
Il 
amount to compensate victims of wrongdoing by others. 
12 
Q 
We have identified the defendant in these 
13 
case➢ as Jeffrey Epstein. 
Was there anything about 
14 
the circumstances, nature or character of the 
IS 
defendant that had any influence on your describing 
14 
these a➢ ➢ignificant case➢? 
I/ 
A 
Yes. If you are going to be representing 
In 
somebody who has suffered, what I would call --
19 
although it wa➢n't exactly physical, it wan mental --
20 
catastrophic damage➢, catastrophic trauma, which I 
21 
believe these young women experienced when they more 
22 
minors and wa➢ ➢till affected by, if you're going to 
23 
represent them in that type of ca➢e, the case la more 
24 
significant IC the person that you aro suing has a➢sets 
25 
that you can go after ➢o that you -- so that your 
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s 
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Is 
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Is 
Is 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
33 
client can be compensated. And Jeffrey Epstein was a 
billionaire. 
And ao in terms of compensating, making 
g➢od to these young women, which would be called 
compensatory damage➢, this was a very significant 
case. You had terrible injuries, mental injuries. 
You had a defendant who, to me, was clearly libel, 
and so there would a very, very significant award of 
compormatory damage➢. 
In addition, if you were able to prove a 
certain degree of willfulne➢➢, that the➢e act➢ --
that he did thesethings intentionally, or he did 
them with a certain mindset, you could recover, 
what's callsd under the law, punitive dmage➢. 
Punitive damages are based on how wealthy 
the defendant is, ➢o that the defendant could be 
punished. And lf a person is extremely wealthy, 
then an award of punitive damages that'➢ $100,000, 
which would seem like a largo award if it wa➢ 
awarded against mo, would be an insignificant award 
of punitive damage➢ against somebody who is 
billionaire. 
So to -- so the firm wan In a position in 
representing 'these young women to go to a jury and 
ask for very, very high number of -- in dollars 
1 
4 
5 
4 
s 
* 
Is 
II 
12 
13 
IS 
Is 
14 
17 
Is 
Is 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
35 
But you do recall Paul Cassell 's 
involvement. What about other local lawyers? Wore 
there other local lawyers who were participants in 
the prosecution of she cases against Jeffrey 
Epstein? 
A 
Yeah. Not representing our three clients, 
but there were other firms that were representing other 
young woman that had been abused by him. Ye➢, I did 
know of those firms. 
There vas the Podhurst firm in Miami, a 
very prominent firms Bob Josofsborg, who I have 
known for years. Bob is one of the moat prominent 
attorneys also in South Florida. He had a case --
ho had cases against Mr. Epstein. Or he had clients 
-- I don't know if he actually filed cases, but he 
had clients that were victims of MX. Epstein. 
Sid Garcia is a very prominent attorney in 
Palm Beach County, who was also representing 
victim. 
Spencer Nuieln was another lawyer. Ted 
Leopold, another prominent attorney, ho also had 
clients. The Searcy Denney, who is a prominent 
firm, had clients as well against Kr. Epstein. And 
I believe an attorney named Adam Horowitz also. 
Those are attorneys that I recall had similar cases 
I 
2 
3 
4 
I 
7 
10 
II 
12 
13 
14 
IS 
It 
11 
IS 
34 
compensatory damages, as well as an extremely high 
norther in punitive damages, because it would take a 
very large amount of punitive damages to punish 
somebody who is a billionaire. 
Q 
Dld the prosecution of the three lawsuits 
for which you and Brad Edwards were responsible 
involvo efforts of any lawyers outside of RRA? 
A 
There was a Paul Cassell who wan co-counsel 
with Brad. I never met him. I have spoken so him. 
And he had been working with Brad -- Brad brought these 
cases to the firm. No didn't -- he didn't get hired on 
these cases after he joined ARA. Be had already filed 
these cases, I believe. I know ho had shoe -- the 
ladies as clients before he joined the firm. And 
Cassell was co-counsel with him on those. 
So in terns of attorneys that were 
co-counsel wish ua, he was a co-counsel representing 
the three young woman that we represented. 
I 
2 
3 
I 
S 
t 
10 
11 
12 
13 
le 
15 
If 
17 
le 
36 
to ours. 
Q 
Tell ua about shit extent to which you wore 
working together in coordinating efforts with those 
other lawyers. 
A 
Well, wo had -- we were conmenlcating, we 
wore comparing notes, we were strategiming with then. 
0 
What is a joint prosecution agreement? 
A 
A joint prosecution agreement la an agreement 
typically in writing -- although it doesn't have to 
be 
between the attorneys for different clients to 
pool their efforts and to keep confidential their 
confidential communications and to jointly assist each 
other because their clients have a common goal and aro 
typically litigating against the sane person or 
company. It's an agreement to share information. 
Q 
Did such an agreement exist to which you 
and you Brad, as lawyers with RNA, were cooperating 
in a joint prosecution effort with Bob Joaaf➢berg, 
It 
0 
Toll ua about Paul Caaaell.
IS 
Spencer kuvin, Sid Garcia, Tod Leopold, Adam Horowitz 
20 
A 
Well, I don't know a whole lot about him, 
30
and the Searcy Denney law firm? 
21 
other than he lives out of atato. And I think he's 
21 
A 
Yea. 
22 
connected with a university. I may be mistaken. 
22 
0 
To what extent did Brad Edwards as➢um a 
23 
0 
No, I think that you aro recalling 
23 
leadership role in that prosecution effort? 
24 
correctly, but we will get those detail➢ from other 
24 
A 
With our firm, with RNA, I was -- I took a 
31 
wan aaaaa 
23 
secondary role to Brad. Brad was the load attorney. 
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39 
These were his clients, 
and I had -- I had specific 
1 
roles, really. 
I wasn't handling the same breadth of 
3 
issues that Brad was. 
I wan handling certain specific 
4 
aspects to the case, and also strateglzing with Brad. 
S 
But he had the lion's share of the representation. 
4 
Q 
And were there also joint prosecution 
7 
conferences regarding how discovery was conducted, 
8 
who wan to lead the discovery efforts, what discovery 
* 
was to to taken among this group of lawyers who wore 
10 
all prosecuting claims on behalf of child victims 
11 
against Jeffrey Epstein? 
12 
A 
Yes. We had verbal. I think I attended one 
13 
in peIlon. 
O 
Did those neetinga go on throughout your 
19 
involvement in the prosecution of those claims? 
I,
A 
Yea. 
Q 
Describe the nature and extent of the 
14 
investigation into Jeffrey Ep➢tein's activities that 
It 
was undertaken in connection with thin group effort 
20 
to hold Mr. Epstein responsible for the victimization 
21 
of children. 
21 
MR. LINK: Object to the form. 
23 
BY MR. SCAROLA: 
24 
Q 
Let me restate the question. 
2S 
Describe, if you would, please, the nature 
I 
BY I
. SCAROLA: 
1 
4 
S 
Q 
When you refer to young women being on the 
planes, did you ever make a determination as to 
whether there were, In fact, children balm; 
transported on those planes by Mr. Epstein? 
4 
A 
I have to correct myself. 
When I talk about 
▪ 
young unman, they were young women when we wore 
▪ 
representing them and at the tine that I was involved. 
* 
But at the time these things happened, they wore 
IC 
minors. 
11 
• 
You were involved in the representation of 
12 
three specific individuals. 
Of what significance was 
13 
it in your representation of those three individuals 
to be investigating and cooperating in the 
19 
investigation of offenses alleged to have 
14 
conflicted -- to have been comnatted by Jeffrey 
17 
Epstein against other children? 
to 
A 
Well, although we just represented three 
11 
minors, or three young women at the time, the rules of 
20 
evidence at a trial do allow an attorney for -- would 
21 
have allowed us, as attorneys for these waxen, to put 
21 
on evidence of other victims and other bad acts by 
23 
Mr. Epstein. 
24 
There's a Florida statute, 90.404, that 
2S 
allows other acts, even though they weren't 
II
1 
2 
3 
4 
8 
9 
30 
32 
32 
39 
34 
24 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
38 
and extent of the investigation 
that was undertaken 
into Jeffrey Epstein's wrongdoing. 
MR. LINK: 
Object to the form. 
THE WITNESS: 
Well, it was pretty 
extensive. 
There were a number of people 
interviewed and you had a network of -- you 
had people that were -- that surrounded 
Epstein In terns of members of his entourage 
or his organization or -- that worked for 
him, and there was a major effort 
to locate 
these individuals that may be potential 
witnesses. 
There were third parties 
that -- such 
as pilots 
that wore -- we were trying to 
track down or communicate with, because 
there had been statements made about how 
sane of these victims wore on planes that 
wore chartered or owned by Mr. Epstein, so 
there were efforts to get the flight 
logs, 
and to depose people who -- many of whom 
turned out to be very prominent, nationally, 
individuals that were on planes that we 
believed contained -- at the same time there 
were young women on the planes -- to track 
down those witnesses. 
40 
committed against your particular client, 
to be 
2 
introduced to show a pattern, a practice, a modus 
3 
operandi, motives, and so it was important for ue to 
4 
investigate any wrongdoing by Hr. Epstein against 
5 
any young woman that was similarly situated and 
4 
groomed and recruited, like ours were, when they 
7 
were teenagers. That would all possibly have been 
• 
evidence that could be presented to a jury in a 
9 
trial, even though our clients weren't directly 
10 
involved in those instances. 
• 
In light of the rules of evidence and the 
11 
Florida statute that you have referenced, did you 
13 
perceive that any obligation existed to investigate 
14 
alleged crimes committed against other children by 
IS 
Jeffrey Epstein under the same circumatances as your 
14 
own clients had been victimized? 
A 
I think it would have been professional 
IS 
malpractice not to have investigated other instances, 
because they were all potentially relevant and it was 
20 
powerful evidence that if he did it to other women, he
21 
did it to us. If the techniques wore the same and the 
22 
same pattern of activity existed -- so I think we were 
23 
bound as attorneys to conduct these other 
24 
investigations. 
21 
Q 
Were any of your three clients molested by 
11 
17 
19 
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Jeffrey 
Epstein 
onboard any of Jeffrey 
Epstein's 
2 
pats? 
3 
A 
I don't 
recall 
that, 
no. 
4 
Q 
In spite 
of the fact 
that 
there 
wore no 
• 
specific 
allegations 
that 
any of your clients 
were 
4 
abused onboard Jeffrey 
Epstein's 
jets, 
why did you 
7 
pur➢ue an investigation as to what went on onboard 
• 
the jots? 
• 
A 
Nell, if -- IC minors wore molested on those 
IC 
jets, even though they weren't our clients, it would 
II 
fit the pattern of what Mr. Epstein had done to our 
Id 
clients, and could have been evidence that the judge 
13 
would have allowed the Jury in that case to hoar. 
II  
0 
You mentioned that names of high -profile 
14 
individuals and celebrities came up during the course 
14 
of the investigation. were investigative loads 
17 
pur➢ued with regard to those individuals? 
II 
A 
I didn't have any direct involvement of that. 
It 
I just know that wo talked about specific Individuals, 
20 
that they were on the planes or they were at 
21 
Mr. Epstein'! house. 
21 
Whether -- when I was working on the 
23 
ease -- the cases before the firm collapsed --
24 
whether we issued ➢ubpoenas or tried to issue 
2S 
subpoena➢ to those persons, I don't recall that. 
1 
4 
S 
• 
Why would Jeffrey Epstein be flying on a 
plane with a minor child who is not his child? And 
what connection did that child have to him? why 
would she be on the plane. That would tend to prove 
that he had evil motives and it had fit the pattern 
of molestation of our clients. 
So the slightest -- any proof that he was 
in the presence of minor children that weren't his 
* 
children that he had no connection with was valuable 
IC 
evidence because it fit the pattern. 
II 
12 
iI 
Q 
What was the geographic scope of the 
Investigation that was undertaken with regard to 
Jeffrey Epstein? 
A 
Nell, it was almost global, really, because 
II 
of the range of his movements. It was certainly 
14 
national. I know he had also prope 
17 
property in the Bahamas -- the Caribbean, so chore were 
I• 
tie➢ throughout the western hemisphere. 
Q 
As an active participant responsible for 
20 
sharing the task of representing these throe clients' 
21 
in claim* against Jeffrey Epstein involving pattern➢ 
21 
of the molestation of children, was there ever 
2) 
anything illegal, unethical or even unreasonable 
24 
about the things that wore investigated in the 
2S 
Epstein cases? 
II 
0 
If, in fact, there was evidence that 
2 
high-profile individuals and celebrities were in a 
3 
position to have observed Jeffrey Epateirrs conduct 
4 
in the presence of minors who turned out to be 
I 
victims of sexual molestation, would there to any 
4 
reason to refrain from pursuing investigative lead➢ 
7 
with regard to those individuals? 
MR. LINZ: Object to the form. 
10 
11 
12 
1) 
14 
IS 
14 
17 
IS 
IS 
30 
31 
32 
33 
34 
33 
42 
THE WITNESS: 
No. 
BY MR. SCAROLA: 
You spoke about an obligation 
to pursue 
investigative 
loads. 
Now would that 
obligation 
pertain, 
if at all, 
to investigative 
leads 
that 
lead 
to high -profile 
and celebrity 
individuals? 
A 
You know, the Bar has in writing 
that 
an 
attorney 
is supposed 
to zealously 
represent 
a client. 
To ma we were duty-bound to pursue these lead➢. And I 
think that we were obligated to do it. 
If Mr. Epstein was on an airplane, either 
his plane or a plane he chartered, and he was with 
another person, whether that person was a 
high-profile person or somebody else, and there was 
a minor, a young minor -- female minor on that 
plane -- whether molestation occurred on that plane 
or not, to me that'➢ powerful evidence. 
44 
A 
No. 
2 
Q 
Was there ever anything illegal, 
unethical 
3 
or even unreasonable about the people included in the 
4 
scope of that investigation? 
A 
No. 
4 
Q 
was there ever anything illegal, unethical 
7 
or even unrea➢onable about the way in which the 
S 
Investigation was conducted? 
1 
A 
No. 
10 
Q 
Did you over have any reason to question 
II 
the legitimacy 
of any of the claims that were being 
12 
prosecuted against Jeffrey 
Epstein by your law firm 
13 
and by you? 
14 
A 
No. 
IS 
Q 
Did you ever have any reason to question 
If 
the legitimacy 
of any of the claims that were 
17 
prosecuted against Jeffrey 
Epstein by those with whom 
IS 
you were participating 
in a joint 
prosecution 
agreement? 
A 
No. 
Q 
You have told us that, 
from your 
perception, 
based upon your experience and training, 
23 
these were significant cases. Did you ever Corm an 
24 
opinion regarding the potential value or the claims 
from a compensatory damage standpoint? 
If 
30 
31 
32 
33 
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47 
I 
A 
They were in the multi-millions of dollars 
1 
So there was then discovery directed to 
2 
from a compensatory standpoint. 
2 
VS to her to discuss her life as a 
) 
0 
And did you form an opinion regarding the 
3 
prostitute. Nell, as a prostitute, a 
4
potential punitive damage value of the cases? 
4 
prostitute would have a pimp, a guy that 
5 
A 
Again, multi-millions of dollars. 
S 
would control her, that would be her boss, 
4 
0 
Who controls the decision as to whether to 
4 
and who would have her under his thumb, and 
f 
settle a civil lawsuit? 
7 
who could threaten her and physically harm 
0 
A 
Well, as in any case, the client calls the 
8 
her if she didn't do what he wanted. 
I 
shots and makes the decision to settle. 
q 
Nell, Epstein's attorneys wanted us to 
le 
0 
What was your perception of the 
10 
disclose -- wanted our client to disclose 
11 
difficulties, If any, faced by the child victims who 
II 
those relationships, who was her pimp, 
12 
were prosecuting claims against Jeffrey Epstein? 
12 
things like that. Her life was now 
13 
A 
In toms of bringing choir claims? 
13 
completely in danger, so we had to deal with 
14 
0 
Yes, sir. In corms of pursuing these 
14 
those issues. 
Is 
claims. Did they face any difficulties, or did they 
15 
So every person who brings a lawsuit 
II 
jest turn this matter over to choir lawyers and they 
10 
whore their 
main damage is what's been done 
19
didn't need to be concerned about it from that point? 
17 
to their mind, not so much what's been done 
10 
MR. LIWR: 
Object to the form. 
16 
to their body -- those young women weren't 
II 
THE WITNESS: Well, yeah, Choy nada 
19 
physically disabled. They were mentally 
20 
themselves targets of personal criticism 
by 
20 
disabled and their lives had been destroyed. 
21 
Mr. Epstein's attorneys. And similarly to 
21 
Any person that brings that type of a 
22 
how, I think, the plea deal cane down, sane 
22 
lawsuit, everything about them IS open to 
2) 
reasons. 
23 
investigation. That's part of bringing a 
24 
But the process that we are involved in 
24 
lawsuit. That was particularly difficult in 
25 
right now is discovery. So the discovery 
25 
those circumstances. 
So those young women 
46 
48 
I 
process with regard to bringing these claims 
I 
wont through a lot during the time that I 
2 
by these young women involved opening up 
2 
was representing then in that regard. 
It 
3 
their 
lives 
to Mr. Epstein and his 
3 
was very, very difficult for them to go 
4 
investigators and to the public. 
4 
through this lawsuit process. 
These were young women who were groomed 
by him. 
They wore identified 
by him and his 
0 
4 
It wasn't just, here is my case, 
Attorney. 
You represent no. 
They wore now 
7 
associates as candidates for his 
1 
part of it and they wore paying the price. 
6 
molestation. They were from broken homes, 
$ 
BY KR. SCAROIA: 
9 
broken families. 
Their mothers night have 
9 
Q 
Did you over observe anything during CIO 
10 
boon prostitutes 
themselves. And those 
10 
course of the prosecution of those claims chat was. 
11 
young woman's lives 
were destroyed by tan. 
11 
intended co inproporly or falsely exaggerate the 
12 
And consequently, after 
he was finished 
12 
seriousness of the impact that these molestation 
had 
13 
with them, they had to then live 
their 
I) 
had on your clients? 
14 
lives, 
and many of them had problems, and 
14 
A 
I wouldn't go so far as to say that is was an 
15 
they faced hardships as a result 
of what he 
15 
attempt to exaggerate it. 
I think that the attorneys 
14 
did to them. 
And all 
of those things would 
14 
chat wo wore facing wore trying co diminish the effect 
17 
be made public and would be investigated. 
17
of what Epstein did co our clients by saying that 
18 
And you also had a situation 
-- it 
was 
IS 
they somehow -- that our clients 
sonehow would have 
19 
a very difficult 
situation 
-- I 
was directly 
19 
done these things anyway. 
20 
involved with it 
-- in terms of courtroom 
20 
But I can't really -- it 
was very 
21 
appearance where, if 
not mistaken, one 
21 
difficult. It took a lot of courage -- a lot of 
22 
or two -- maybe ono of our clients 
was 
22 
courage for those young women co pursue those cases. 
23 
accused of being a prostitute 
herself 
as she 
23 
But I couldn't say that -- really that it 
was 
24 
grew up and after Epstein was finished 
with 
24 
anything unethical that the opposing attorneys were 
25 
her. 
25 
doing. They wore representing him zealously, too. 
Palm Beach Reporting Service, Inc. 561-471-2995 
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3 
4 
7 
4 
* 
IC 
II 
12 
13 
IS 
II
It 
I? 
IS 
IS 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
49 
Q 
So let's 
focus on what you and Brad Edwards 
were doing. 
Waa there anything ever improper that 
was undertaken to try to exaggerate the value of 
these claim's or the impact that Jeffrey Epatein's 
molestation had had on these young children? 
A 
No. 
Q 
Did you ever see anything that was done in 
prosecuting the Epstein cases that was illegal, 
unethical or unreasonable in any way? 
A 
No. 
Q 
Was anything done that was not part of a 
completely proper effort 
to protect the legal rights 
of your three child victims? 
A 
No. 
Q 
Dld there coma a tine when you learned that 
Rothstein had used the cases that we have been 
referring 
to to attract Ponsi schema investor➢? 
A 
I learned that sometime in the beginning of 
November of 2009 by --  
, by reading it in the 
paper. 
Q 
prior to that tine, 
was there any reason 
whatsoever for you to have even suspected that any of 
[base claims being legitimately 
prosecuted by you and 
Brad Edwards were being used for any improper 
purpose? 
2 
) 
4 
5 
4 
7 
s 
* 
IC 
II 
12 
13 
14 
13 
14 
I7 
14 
I* 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
51 
Jeffrey Epstein wa➢ attempting to defend himself over 
the course of the month➢ that you were involved in 
these claims? 
A 
Nell, he took the Fifth amendment and then he 
went after the clients -- or his attorney did very 
aggressively. 
Q 
In light 
of hi➢ aggressive attack➢ on the 
victim, 
did it 
coma as a surprise to you that 
Jaffrey Epstein had attempted to attack Brad Edward➢? 
A 
Well, it 
was -- again, I was ➢till ➢tuned 
that he did. 
0 
In addition to prosecution of these three 
civil 
lawsuit➢ against Jeffrey Epstein, did you 
become aware of the fact that Brad WAS volunteering 
his services to challenge the validity of Jeffrey 
Epstein'➢ criminal plea deal? 
A 
I didn't 
know what Brad'➢ financial 
arrangement wa➢ at all. 
I did know that he wa➢ 
representing, I think, the throe same clients in a 
federal lawsuit challenging the plea agreement. 
Q 
Dld you become aware of the terms of that 
plea agreement? 
A 
Yes. 
Q 
And what was your reaction when you learned 
that Jeffrey Epstein had been granted federal 
50 
A 
No. 
52 
immunity -- not only for himself, but from -- for all 
2 
Q 
Evan as you sit here today, looking back in 
2 
of his co-conspirators -- against any federal 
3 
retrospect, la there anything that you can point to 
prosecution in exchange for an 1S-month state )all 
4 
and say, you know, I didn't reopens* it at the time, 
but maybe that should have raised ➢ome suspicion? 
4 
sentence? 
A 
It gas an outrageou➢ly wrong plea agreement. 
4 
A 
No. 
Tho idea that he wan conducting a Ronal 
4 
I was embarra➢sed for the -- that the V.S. Attorney's 
scheme had never -- I never had the slightest 
inkling 
/ 
office and the state attorney in Palm Beach County 
that that was occurring. 
S 
would agree to such a deal. 
9 
0 
No are bore taking your deposition today 
9 
Q 
What was the ➢ignificance of Brad'➢ 
10 
because, as you know, Jeffrey Epstein filed a lawsuit 
10 
involvement in attempting to undo that transaction on 
II 
against Brad Edward➢ accusing him of having been a 
II 
behalf of Jeffrey Epstein•a victims? 
12 
knowing participant 
in Scott Rothstein'➢ Rani 
12 
MR. LINK: 
Object to the form. 
13 
scheme --
13 
NITHESS: 
Nell, it 
was the right 
14 
MR. LINK: 
Object to the form. 
14 
thing to do. 
They were -- I didn't have any 
IS 
BY I
. SCAROLA: 
IS 
direct involvement in that proceeding. 
As I 
If 
0 
-- of having been involved in the 
If 
understood it, 
as in Florida -- Florida has 
17 
commission of a variety of serious crimes. 
17 
a law -- as a criminal judge, I try to 
IS 
What was your reaction when Epstein sued 
IS 
uphold that and I ➢aw it unfold in front of 
la 
Brad alleging that he had participated in 
19 
me, because people who are victim 
have a 
20 
fabricating or exaggerating claims against Jeffrey 
20 
right to notice and to participate 
and to bo 
21 
Epstein? 
31 
present during key facets of the prosecution 
22 
A 
I read that in the paper and I was ➢tunned. 
22 
of the parson who is the wrongdoer, the 
33 
0 
Why? 
33 
person who is Charged With a crime, 
24 
A 
It was outrageous. 
34 
particularly when it came to a sentencing 
23 
Q 
Had you come to know the manner in which 
31 
hearing. 
And the right of a victim to 
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55 
1 
attend the sentencing hearing and to bo 
I 
the court reporter would like to do. 
2 
apprized that it's coming and to have the 
2 
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record 
3 
right to give input to the prosecutor is a 
) 
at 10:45 
4 
right that I try to enforce, and I saw It 
4
4A recess was had.) 
5 
unfold. And the state attorney's office 
S 
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going back on the 
6 
complied with that when I was on the bench, 
4 
video record. The time is 10:55 
. 
7 
so I was somewhat familiar with that 
1 
CROSS-EXAMINATION 
8 
concept. We are dealing here with the 
4 
BY KR. LINK: 
9 
federal prosecution. I came to learn that 
4 
0 
Good morning. 
10 
under federal law, there's a similar law to 
is 
A 
Good morning. 
11 
the one that we have under the state system. 
II 
0 
As you know, 
Scott Link, and 
12 
And so I thought it was very 
12 
representing the plaintiff, 
Jeffrey Epstein, in this 
13 
significant. 
It was unique for an attorney 
13 
matter. 
14 
to bo representing victims who had -- where 
is 
We, too, hope that your surgery is 
IS 
the perpetrator was prosecuted in a federal 
II 
successful and that you recover fully. 
If 
casco, and the attorney was trying to uphold 
is 
A 
Thank you very much. 
17 
the right of these victims to have 
17 
Q 
And we appreciate you being hero today. 
le 
participated in and boon consulted and given 
is 
During your direct examination, ono of the 
19 
notice for an opportunity to bo heard with 
Is 
things that you were talking about was the Pons" 
20 
regard to the sentencing of the parson who 
20 
scheme that Mr. Rothstein ran as part of the -- you 
II 
did those crimes to them. 
I thought Brad 
21 
called it RIM -- that's the law firm -- the 
22 
was doing something that I had never hoard 
21 
Rothstein firm, right? 
22 
an attorney do. It was a very courageous 
2) 
A 
Noll, you said right. It wasn't part of the 
24 
act and ho should be commended for it. 
24
RRA firm. 
IS 
2S 
Q 
It wasn't? 
54 
56 
I 
BY I
. SCAROLA: 
I 
A 
No. 
2 
Q 
During the course of your decades of 
2 
Q 
So there wasn't any part of the cases or 
3 
practice, including the time you spent as a circuit 
3 
the omployeea or anybody at the Rothstein law firm 
4 
court judge, had you over oven hoard of a plea deal 
4 
that were participants in the Rothstein Ponsi schema. 
3 
where not only was the defendant himself 'amazed, 
2 
Is that your testimony? 
4 
but all of his unnamed co-conspirators were given 
6 
MR. SCAROLA: 
Objection, compound. 
7 
Imaunity for all of Choir unnamed crises? 
7 
THE WITNESS: 
I mean, there wore 
S 
MR. LINK: Object to the form. 
I 
employees that wore -- I don't consider it 
9 
THE WITNESS: 
No. 
9 
part of the BRA firm. It was a rogue 
IC 
By I
. SCAROLA: 
10 
criminal activity that was outside the 
11 
0 
Except as an effort to try to intimidate 
II 
purpose of the firm and -- I moan, I admit 
12 
and bully Brad Edward,' into backing off what Brad was 
12 
it was done by Rothstein. 
And certainly 
11 
doing both in attempting to hold Jeffrey Epstein 
1) 
several of the attorneys were prosecuted. 
14 
civilly responsible for his wrongs and to challenge 
14 
Sena of sham, of course, were prosecuted, 
IS 
the plea that he had been permitted to enter, are you 
IS 
but having nothing to do with the Ponsi 
14 
aware of any reason whatsoever that would justify 
14 
scheme, such as Steve Lippman and Stuart 
17 
Jeffrey Epstein In suing Brad Edwards? 
17 
Rosenfeldt, as far as I know. And there 
II 
MR. LINK: Object to the form. 
II 
wore a couple of employees that were 
19 
THE WITNESS: 
No. 
19 
irplicated in connection with the Ponsi 
35 
MR. SCAROLA: 
Thank you. 
I don't have 
25 
scheme. 
And there wan even one or two 
31 
any further questions. 
21 
clients that More part of the Ponsi scheme. 
32 
MR. LINK: Mr. Borger, before we start 
22 
But maybe. 
being -- playing on 
33 
[roes-examination, do you want to take a 
23 
nocantics. 
I just don't consider it to be 
24 
break or aro you okay? 
24 
part of the firm. 
But I have acknowledge 
33 
THE WITNESS: 
I would go with whatever 
21 
those connections that you are pointing out. 
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59 
BY RR. LINK: 
2 
Q 
Do no a favor. Toll the jury what a Banal 
3 
scheme is. 
A 
A Ronal schema la -- is -- not that I know --
I have learned much more as to what it is by reading 
4 
about the Rothstein scam. 
A Ronal scheme is where you 
? 
solicit 
investors and you have something that you're 
­ 
promoting with their money. 
You're soliciting 
their 
* 
money and you are paying them a return on their money, 
14 
not from profits of whatever enterprise it, but you are 
11 
paying them from money that you are getting from 
12 
lnve➢tors after them. 
13 
so the business enterprise that you're 
14 
promoting, that you're soliciting 
the money for 12 
13 
not really a legitimate business enterprise with a 
14 
purpose of being self-➢ufficient. It'➢ one that'➢ 
12 
funded by the continual investments or investments 
14 
by investors and investors after them, and so it ha➢ 
1* 
no substance. 
So at some point it's got to fall 
20 
apart because you can't keep bringing in now 
IL 
investors and milking new Investors to keep 
22 
everything afloat and payoff the return to the other 
23 
investors. 
24 
0 
so would you agree with me Mr. Rothstein 
25 
wa➢ fabricating settlements and using those 
1 
2 
4 
4 
7 
IC 
II 
12 
13 
II 
If 
14 
17 
is 
It 
20 
2L 
22 
23 
24 
25 
particular who eventually wrote a book --
Sako -- something like that. 
No said that 
the reason -- ono of the reasons ho backed 
out of investing money is because he wasn't 
allowed to see the file. 
So I don't know if Rothstein actually 
physically showed these three files to 
victims of his scam. 
But he certainly had 
physical possession of them and used then in 
soma way. 
BY NR. LINK: 
O 
so you don't know the details, 
but you aro 
aware that Rothstein used the three pending cases 
against Epstein and fabricated settle ants and 
information in order to try to keep his Ponsi scheme 
alive? 
MR. SCAROLA: 
objection. 
Secondhand 
knowledge and compound. 
THE WITNESS: 
Again, when you say, I 
know, I heard that. 
I don't know if it was 
all three. 
And I don't know exactly how he 
used then In terms of -- since we didn't 
have -- you know, the cases wore going by 
initials 
-- and I just don't know what use 
he put then to. 
58 
I 
fabricated settlements to try to entice folks to give 
2 
him money? 
3 
A 
Yea. 
4 
Q 
Investors to give hie money? 
A 
Yes. 
4 
Q 
And he would use actual, sometime➢, cases 
7 
that were pending at the law firm? 
A 
Apparently that is what he did. 
I learned 
9 
that after the fact. 
10 
Q 
Can you tell the jury what Mr. Rothstein 
II 
did with the three cases that were pending against 
12 
13 
15 
13 
IS 
19 
30 
31 
32 
33 
34 
35 
Mr. Epstein? 
Now did Rothstein use them? 
MR. SCAROLA: 
objection. 
Predicate. 
THE WITNESS: 
I don't know exactly. 
I 
have read -- I have only read that he 
physically had the flies of those cases, the 
case file➢, and I think had -- at ➢one point 
had brought then into his office after 
hours. 
I don't know what he did with them. 
I 
don't know if he showed thew to investors or 
he was just familiarizing himself with the 
details, 
because in reading sone other 
statements by people who were scanned, ono 
of the things that -- well, one person in 
60 
BY NR. LINK: 
2 
Q 
Can you tell me the first 
time you spoke to 
3 
Mr. Rothstein about ono or all of the three pending 
I 
5 
S 
10 
cases against Hr. Epstein? 
A 
You know, 
not even sure I talked to Scott 
about the case➢. 
Q 
You don't have a memory, as you sit here 
today, of participating in group conversations with 
the lawyers involved in the Epstein cases meting 
with Mr. Rothstein? 
IL 
A 
No. 
12 
Q 
How often would you neat with 
13 
Mr. Rothstein? 
14 
A 
You know, I would see him in the hall. I 
15 
would go co his office If I had a question. 
How often? 
14 
Sometimes I saw him ovary day. 
When you say moot with him, wo didn't 
IS 
have -- I moan, we did have -- we did have --
It 
don't know if they were regular or periodic, but we 
24 
did have meetings of shareholders in the firm. 
Not 
21 
to discuss specific cases, really, but just to --
22 
just firm business. So I saw him probably everyday. 
33 
Q 
so mentioned the fire's shareholders. 
That 
31 
was the small elite group of the senior lawyers of 
25 
the firm, right? 
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1 
A 
Well, it was the small group of the senior 
2 
attorneys. I don't know that I would call It elite. 
0 
And you were ono of them? 
4 
A 
Yoa. 
5 
0 
And you held yourself out to the public as 
6 
a shareholder? 
7 
A 
Yoa. 
0 
What does it moan to bo a shareholder? 
9 
A 
It could mean -- I guess the common 
10 
knowledge -- or the common connotation would be 
11 
somebody that owns a piece of the conpany. 
12 
0 
Sure. If you own shares In the company, 
13 
right? 
14 
A 
Right. 
25 
0 
Did you, in fact, own shares company? 
26 
A 
No. 
22 
0 
Yet you did hold yourself out as a 
28 
shareholder? 
29 
A 
Yes. 
20 
0 
I fact, I've road newspaper articles that 
21 
talk about you as a shareholder. Do you romanber 
22 
A 
22 
MR. SCAROLA, Excuse me. 
24 
Object to the form of the question. 
IS 
63 
I 
meetings to discuss the business of the firm, did you 
2 
talk about the financial aide of the business? 
3 
4 
S 
4 
s 
10 
11 
12 
13 
11 
15 
14 
17 
IS 
It 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
A 
we talked about finances just in general, not 
really -- not numbers in terms of, for example, the 
firm had revenue of k dollars this month. No, we 
didn't have that type of discussion. 
Q 
Mere you aware of revenue that the lawyers 
in the firm were generating? 
A 
No. 
Q 
You aro not aware that in 2008 the total 
revenue was about 58 million? 
A 
No. 
Q 
How such revenue a year did you generate, 
air? 
A 
I don't 
remember. 
Q 
Now such were you paid when you first 
started? 
A 
Three hundred thousand a year. 
Q 
Dld your salary go up when you were there? 
A 
No. 
Q 
Did you have any clients 
when you started 
at the firm? 
A 
Well, I had just loft 
the bench, so I didn't 
have clients, 
no. 
Q 
How such was your salary 
when you were on 
2 
3 
4 
5 
t 
7 
10 
II 
12 
13 
14 
IS 
If 
11 
62 
BY MR. LINK: 
Q 
Do you remember seeing newspaper articles 
holding you out as a shareholder? 
MR. SCAROLA: Objection. Secondhand 
knowledge, hearsay. 
IRE WITNESS: I don't remember 
seeing -- I can't recall an article whore I 
was totaled as a shareholder. I wouldn't 
doubt it, though, because that's what I was 
called. 
BY MR. LINK: 
Q 
That's what you were called and that's what 
you hold yourself out aa, right? 
MR. SCAROLA: Sara objection. 
TIC WITNESS: Right. 
BY MR. LINK: 
O 
How many shareholders wore there In this 
IS 
roughly 70-lawyer firm? 
19 
30 
31 
A 
I think there were about 10. 
Q 
And who were the other shareholders? 
A 
Stuart Rosenfeldt, 
Russell Adler, Lea 
22 
Streltfeld, 
Steve Lippman. 
There were others -- Mare 
23 
think might have been -- - 
pretty sure Hunk was a 
24 
shareholder. 
I just don't camber 
other names. 
35 
Q 
And when you would have these shareholder 
64 
the bench? 
2 
A 
About 150,000. 
3 
Q 
So you doubled your salary by going with 
4 
the Roth➢tein fir? 
5 
A 
Correct. 
Q 
Did you have any offers 
from law fires 
5 
Other than the Rothstein firm? 
A 
No. 
Not offer➢. 
9 
0 
During the tine that you were with the 
10 
Rothstein firm, you said chinos changed, the way --
Il 
the office 
size and things, of that nature, 
right? 
12 
A 
Right. 
13 
0 
Mr. Scarola asked you about whether Chore 
14 
was anything you saw that was a bit of a red flag at 
IS 
the time or when you look back. 
I want to talk to 
If 
you about the changes that you saw, okay? 
17 
Can you describe for the jury how you 
IS 
would gat to Kr. Rothstein , . office 
in October 2009? 
19 
What process did you have to go through? 
30 
A 
You had to speak to -- Ms. Feiss, 
I believe, 
21 
was hla aaaaaaa nt -- or scootody else to soo if Scott's 
22 
in, could you talk to him. 
23 
Q 
Was his office 
just sitting 
out there on 
21 
the main floor like your office 
la here at this 
law 
25 
fi rm? 
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A 
Well, it was on the nain floor. It was --
2 
there wa➢ a corridor, and his office wa➢ behind the 
3 
door at the end of the corridor. 
4 
Q 
Was there ➢ecurity guards? 
In order to get 
5 
to his office 
you had to go passed security 
guards? 
A 
There w➢ security 
at tines in the firm. 
I 
7 
wouldn't -- keeping in mind I was in Boca most of the 
s 
time around that time, ➢o I couldn't say whether there 
* 
was security 
in the Fort Lauderdale office 24/7. 
But 
10 
there wore a couple of ➢ecurity guards that -- they 
11 
didn't wear uniforms, but they were bodyguard➢. That's 
12 
how I phrase theft. 
13 
Q 
Rothstein had bodyguards? 
14 
A 
Yeah. 
15 
O 
Nave you ever had a bodyguard as a lawyer? 
14 
A 
No. 
17 
Q 
Dld you think it at all strange that 
14 
Mr. Rothstein had a couple of bodyguards protecting 
Is 
him? 
20 
A 
I thought it was strange, yeah. 
21 
Q 
I have heard that to get to his office that 
22 
you had to actually pass dawn this corridor and that 
23 
there were sort of obstacles 
and hurdle➢ in ardor to 
24 
get in there. 
It wasn't as though you could walk 
IS 
down the main hallway, open his door and walk in. 
1 
Q 
lust 
in the cannon areas you thought? 
2 
A 
I didn't 
know that there were speakers or 
3 
wiretaps or surveillance 
In people's 
offices. 
4 
0 
Were you aware that he had a private 
S 
elevator in his office? 
MR. SCAROLA: Could we identify when 
7 
this. awareness arose? 
MR. LINK: 
Mr. scarola, 
we already 
• 
talked about it being October 2009. 
THE NITNESS: 
sorry, 
you talked 
11 
about -- you asked no how did you get in the 
12 
office 
in October of 2009. 
13 
BY MR. LINK: 
• 
That's what 
talking about. 
15 
A 
I wasn't aware of electronic 
surveillance 
in 
14 
October of 2009. 
I learned that afterwards. 
17 
0 
You were not --
IS 
A 
No. 
It 
Q 
so while you were at the fi rm you were 
20 
unaware that there was electronic 
surveillance 
at the 
21 
firm? 
22 
A 
Yes. 
23 
Q 
Were you aware that his office 
had a 
24 
private elevator? 
2S 
MR. SCAROLA: 
When? 
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If 
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MR. SCAROLA: 
Object to the fore of the 
question. 
THE WITNESS: 
If you're talking 
about 
something like a mall would have an 
obstacle➢ for somebody -- they couldn't 
drive a car through a door at NaCy'S or 
smoothing like that -- 
I don't remember any 
obstacle➢. 
BY MR. LINK: 
• 
You don't 
remember there being an off -duty 
sheriff 
in the building providing ➢ecurity? 
A 
Not really, 
no. 
O 
Do you remoter 
the electronic 
surveillance 
equipment that Mr. Rothstein had at the firm? 
A 
Yes. 
O 
Describe it for us,  
A 
Re had -- there was a loudspeaker, and I 
learned that it wa➢ a two-way one where he could listen 
to what you were saying. 
O 
In your office? 
A 
No. 
That I didn't 
know. 
Q 
NOW about in the conference room? 
A 
I didn't 
knew specifically 
whore. 
Q 
Whore would he be listening 
to people at? 
A 
The common areas. 
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IS 
If 
IS 
68 
BY MR. LINK: 
Q 
sir, 
all of them questions are 
October 2009, okay? 
A 
When you say a private elevator 
-- when I 
joined the fire 
in June of 2008, there was an elevator 
that Stuart Rosenfeldt and Scott Rothstein used that 
was in the building. 
It's 
not like in October of 2009 
they had an elevator 
constructed. 
There was an elevator 
that would -- it 
wasn't in the public corridor 
where the other 
elevators 
were. 
Now, whether this elevator 
serviced other 
people in the building or not, I have no idea. 
I 
never was on it. 
Q 
You were never invited to ride on 
Mr. Rothstein's 
elevator? 
A 
Well, you call 
it Mr. Rothstein's 
elevator. 
It was in a location 
that accessible 
by Stuart and 
19 
Scott. Whether it could have been acce➢sible by 
30 
somebody else, 
I don't recall. 
I might have ridden OA 
21 
the elevator, 
but I don't 
know that it was one that was 
22 
specifically 
for then as opposed to any other tenants 
33 
in the building. 
34 
It wasn't One that was publicly 
used. 
25 
will agree to that. 
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Q 
You mentioned Hr. Kendall Coffey. Old you 
read hi➢ report on the layers of secrecy that he 
described as he wa➢ trying to ➢ay that what Rothstein 
was doing was unknown because of the secret world 
that Mr. Rothstein created at the firm. Did you road 
that report, ➢ir? 
A 
No, I didn't road the report. 
Are you familiar with what El talking 
about? 
A 
No, I didn't know there was a written report. 
I did see Kendall Coffey on TV. 
No invited newspaper 
reporters -- he Malted reporters and a cameranan to 
walk through the office. 
That I did see. 
4) 
Okay, tell 
ue -- tell 
the jury what it is 
that you saw. 
What was Hr. Kendall Coffey pointing 
out sheet the layer of Hr. Rothstein? 
MR. SCAROLA: 
Excuse ne. 
Could we set 
a tine frame, please? 
BY I
. LINK: 
Q 
Has there more than one tine you saw 
Mr. Coffey on TV? 
A 
No, this was probably in November of 2009. 
Q 
Can you ➢hare with the jury what Mr. Coffey 
was showing the world about Rothateln'a inner 
sanctum. 
2 
4 
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4 
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is 
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But before that, Scott's office, basically, 
you could just walk in on his office. 
I once walked into Scott Rothstein'➢ 
office -- again, before the renodallm --
and -- within the Jewish religion, people, 
if they are devout believers, would do 
something called davening, and that's 
praying. My father did that every morning. 
And that would mean you had the Bible, the 
Torah, and you prayed and you chanted and 
you talked in Hebrew. 
I walked in and Scott was davening. It 
was ao -- excuse no. So it was almost an 
open door policy for most of the tine that I 
was there until this remodeling occurred. 
BY I
. LINK: 
Q 
Right. And that's what 
focused on, 
which la how things changed during the tine that you 
were at the fins. 
A 
Right. 
Q 
so he had an open door policy, than Chore's 
a renodallng and his open door policy vanished, 
correct? 
A 
To moat extent, yea. 
Q 
Could you just walk up and go into hla 
2 
70 
MR. SCAROLA: 
Object to the form of the 
question. 
2 
72 
office without being cleared first? 
A 
Sonatinas, yea. 
3 
THE WITNESS: 
He showed them that to 
0 
Into the remodeled space? 
4 
get to the office, 
you had to walk through a 
4 
A 
Yeah. It's happened. 
5 
corridor. TILL➢ is just what I can visually 
Q 
So you had that level of relationship with 
4 
Mr. Rothstein that you could go to the Fort 
Again, I do not recall obstacles, as 
7 
Lauderdale office, 
once it wan remodeled, and simply 
8 
you put it. 
walk ln, open his door and go see him without having 
Certainly, 
there weren't any security 
9 
to clear any ➢taff person or ➢ecurity to do that; is 
10 
guards Standing there when Coffey was 
10 
that right? 
31
showing the newspaper reporters things. 
II 
A 
sonatinas that happened once or twice, and it 
32 
Then there was a door. 
The door -- you 
12 
happened with other people, too. 
It's 
just that 
19 
would open the door and there was the 
13 
somebody wasn't there. 
34 
office. 
What he was actually 
showing to a 
14 
You would walk dawn the corridor. 
And if 
Is 
TV audience in the way of security, 
you 
15 
somebody didn't 
say Scott's busy or acmothing like 
16 
really couldn't toll because there was 
If 
that, you just knock on the door and ho would say, 
17 
nobody there and he wasn't -- he couldn't 
17 
Come in, something like that. 
That may have 
18 
point to anything electronic. 
He was just 
IS 
happened a couple of [Irma. 
It wasn't because of m➢ 
19 
showing where the corridor 
was and wham the 
19 
or who I was. 
It was ju➢t the timing of M. 
It 
20 
doors were and there wa➢ a door. 
It 
could 
20
wasn't like it was 24/? all the tine. 
21 
have boon a double door or not. And that 
21 
SO I will agree it 
was different 
at the 
22 
Was -- again, that was -- as I said, the 
22 
tine period you are talking about than before in 
23 
office 
had been remodeled. 
33 
terms of access. 
24 
How soon before that -- I don't 
24 
In your 40 years of being a lawyer, have 
25 
remember when that remodeling had occurred. 
23 
you ever seen a law office like Mr. Rothstein's once 
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he romodolod it? 
2 
A 
You moan the physical 
layout. 
Q 
Yes, air. 
A 
To ➢one extent. 
Are you talking 
about the decor in the 
f 
office 
itself? 
7 
Q 
Let's talk about the whole thing, the 
4 
process to gat to that office, where he wont from 
* 
being doors open to a secluded office. 
le 
A 
Wall, I mean, look, I worked for Mel 
11 
Greenberg who founded Greenberg Traurig, which is now 
12 
the largest firm in the world. I couldn't just knock 
13 
on Nal Greenberg's. door and walk in. I had to go 
14 
through -- I had to go through -- not security, a➢ you 
II 
would call it, but I had to go through hla secretary or 
14 
I had to make an appointment. He didn't have an open 
la 
door policy. 
Q 
Did Hr. Greenberg have bodyguards? 
A 
No. 
20 
Q 
How big was his office? 
21 
A 
He had a big office. 
22 
0 
How big, roughly? 
23 
A 
I can't -- the conference room was bigger 
24 
than this conference room. 
25 
Q 
And how about Kr. Rothateln's office 
I 
him need two bodyguards to protect him? Who was 
2 
after him? 
A 
I don't know. 
4 
MR. SCAROLA: Objection, compound. 
S 
THE WITNESS: I don't know. I  
don't know. 
BY KR. LINK: 
Q 
Did you ever go to his house? 
A 
Yes. 
so 
Q 
What was hla house like? 
II 
A 
It was a lavish home. It wasn't the biggest 
12 
home in the community. He lived in a very high-end 
13 
cowounity on the water off of Las Olas Boulevard. It's 
14 
kind of a zero-lot-line community. There's not a lot 
Is 
of land outside the homes. So it was a very lavish 
14 
17 
Q 
Hawaii:Iabout 66 million for it? 
la 
It 
20 
21 
22 
24 
25 
A 
I don't know what he paid. 
Q 
Do you know what kind of cars he had? 
A 
Well, I know he had a Rolls-Royce and he had 
a Bugatti. 
Q 
What's a Bugatti? 
loll 
the jury what a 
Bugatti is. 
A 
It's 
a very expansive sports car. 
Q 
Approximately how much to a buy a Bugatti? 
74 
1 
compared to this conference room? 
2 
A 
It was a little bit bigger. Obviously it was 
3 
configured differently. Thin isn't a rectangular 
4 
office. 
I worked for Marty Fine and Bernie 
4 
Jacobson in Miami. They didn't have an open door 
/ 
policy. 
• 
So their office was set up in the ➢ane way 
9 
as Rothstein? 
10 
Il 
12 
13 
la 
15 
If 
17 
IS 
11 
A 
You are talking about an open door, 
okay. 
Open door can be different 
things. 
You still 
had to make -- you ➢till had to speak to their 
secretary to got in. 
You didn't have -- no, there 
weren't bodyguards. 
Not that there were bodyguard➢ 
everywhere and all the tine. 
There were people -- security people in 
the Roth➢tein firm. 
I didn't 
see that in other 
firma, no. 
Q 
Are you aware that Nr. Rothstein traveled 
20 
with bodyguards when he would go to meetings? 
21 
A 
Not specifically, no. I wouldn't be 
32 
surprised, but I didn't know that. 
23 
Q 
It wouldn't surprise you if he did? 
24 
A 
No. 
2s 
Q 
What was is about Mr. Rothstein that made 
2 
3 
76 
A 
Half a million. 
Q 
What other kind of care did he have? 
A 
I don't know what other care he had. 
I moan 
4 
I know he had other cars. I don't know --
9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
la 
15 
If 
17 
IS 
19 
Q 
Did you ever ➢ee his Ferraris? 
A 
No. 
O 
His Lamborghinis? 
A 
No. 
O 
Did he have a boat? 
A 
Yea. 
Q 
What kind of boat did he have? 
A 
Ho had a -- I don't know Cho make of it. It 
was about 9O-foot -- I guess 
call it a -- 
not 
aura if you would call It a yacht. But it was a 
90-foot boat. 
Q 
I would call 90-foot a yacht. 
A 
I wean it didn't have a sail -- it didn't 
have a west. So you could call it a yacht. A motor 
yacht I would call it. 
20 
0 
So it 
was 90 feet long? 
21 
A 
Right. 
22 
4) 
Did he have a crow or did he drive that 
33 
boat himself? 
24 
A 
No, he didn't drive it himself. There wan a 
2s 
captain. 
not ➢ure if there was a mato or anybody 
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else that was associated with the boat. 
I think there 
Q 
Any other lawyers in Fort Lauderdale that 
you knot. have the 56 million 
home and the 90-foot 
boat behind it? 
MR. SCARALA: 
Excuse me. IM going to 
object. No proper predicate to the 
question. Assumes facts not In evidence. 
THE WITNESS: 
I don't know. 
BY MR. LINK: 
0 
Can you tell no ono other lawyer in Fort 
Lauderdale that has the Bugatti, Ferraris, 
Rolla-Royce, Lantorghlal, two bodyguards, a very 
large house on the  
, and a 90-foot boat? 
MR. SCAROLA: 
Objection. 
Improper 
predicate. 
kaaLlilaa facts not in evidence. 
THE WITNESS: 
I don't know. 
By KR. LINK: 
0 
Do you know of anyone? 
A 
No. 
Q 
Whore did the noway coma from for 
Mr. Rothstein to buy all of those things? 
A 
I don't know. 
Q 
Did you ever ask him any questions about 
where all this stuff 
cane from? 
2 
4 
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4 
e 
I 
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is 
If 
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that will give plaintiffs 
money for an a➢➢ignment of 
the potential recovery, right? 
A 
Right. 
Q 
Were you aware that Hr. Rothstein was doing 
something like that? 
A 
I had no idea. 
Q 
Did Hr. Rothstein over talk to you about 
the cases you were working on and what type of 
counts -- legal counts you had include! in your 
complaint. 
A 
No. 
You aro talking -- no, ho didn't. 
Q 
Would there to a difference in -- from ➢ort 
of this factoring standpoint -- the Pons,. scheme 
standpoint between a tort count and a non-tort 
count 
from a settlement ➢tandpoint? 
A 
Nell, I. not sure I ROCS Whit you're talking 
about. 
I don't know what you mean by the difference. 
I know what a tort claim is. 
A tort claim 
is ono where ➢omebody is personally injured, and a 
non-tort 
clam would be not involving a personal 
injury. 
Q 
Is there any difference in the law and the 
regulations on structured settlements between tort 
claims and non-tort 
claims? 
A 
No. 
That, I don't know. 
78 
A 
No. 
80 
Q 
Mr. Rothstein, during the tine that you 
2 
Q 
While you were working at the Rothstein 
2 
were employed there, I understand, bought a 
2 
firm, how many multi-million-dollar employment camas 
a 
restaurant called Bova. Are you familiar with that 
4 
did y 
4 
restaurant? 
4 
A 
I don't know of any. 
Q 
In the practice group that you Were in --
A 
Yes. 
It was downstairs in the building. 
0 
Did you ever eat there with Mr. Rothstein? 
7 
you were in tort practice group? 
7 
A 
Yes. 
S 
A 
No. 
No, I wasn't in the tort practice group. 
Q 
Can you tell 
no any other restaurants 
9 
0 
Okay. 
9 
Mr. Rothstein owned other than Bova? 
10 
So in the tort practice group, though --
10 
A 
Nell, Bova had -- I believe Scott had an 
II 
you are familiar with, right -- how many 
11 
ownership interest with Tony BOVa in the Bova that 
12 
multi -million -dollar 
employment cases dad they 
12 
you're talking about, which was in the lobby of the 
13 
wattle during the time that you were employed at 
13 
office building. 
Tony Bova also had a restaurant here 
14
RRA? 
14 
in Boca called Bova. 
And I don't know if Scott had an 
15 
A 
I don't know. 
15 
interest in that. 
If 
0 
Any? 
If 
0 
Did the firm have boxes at sporting events? 
I/ 
A 
I don't know. 
I didn't hoar of any. 
17 
A 
That, I don't know. No had -- I mean, I have 
II 
Q 
More you aware that Mr. Rothstein was --
IS 
used tickets, 
but not in a box. 
19 
let's 
not call it a Reail scheme -- but that he was 
19 
0 
Not in a box? 
30
using canes and was looking to generate moray to pay 
30 
A 
No. 
31 
off the plaintiffs ahead of time? 
21 
4) 
Have you heard that Hr. Rothstein had very 
32 
A 
After the fact. 
No. 
32 
expensive boxes at sporting events? 
33 
Q 
But not while it was happening? 
33 
MR. SCAROIA: 
Objection. 
Hearsay, 
24 
A 
No. 
24 
secondhand knowledge. 
21 
Q 
You know there aro twain aaaaa out there 
31 
THE WITNESS: 
not sure. 
I don't 
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