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FBI VOL00009

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times before coming here to testify today; isn't that right? 
A. Yes. 
Q. And at one of those meetings, they showed you the same 
document that I've been showing you just today to refresh your 
recollection; isn't that right? 
A. Was that reference to the logbook looking --
Q. Yes. 
A. Okay. I don't remember if I did see any from the 
government on that. I'm drawing a blank. I'm going to go with 
yes. 
Q. Well, do you recall them pointing out certain flights to 
you? 
A. Yes. 
Q. To see if you recall them? 
A. Yes. 
Q. You do remember that? 
A. Yes, I do. Yes. 
Q. And in particular, they pointed out certain flights to you 
where a female passenger was listed with just her first name. 
Do you remember that? 
A. Yes. 
Q. And that first name was the same as 
true first name; 
is that right? 
A. Correct. 
Q. And that did not list the passenger's last name, right, 
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just her true first name? 
A. Correct. Yes. 
Q. And there were three of those flights; is that right? 
A. As far as that same first name? 
Q. Yes. 
A. I'm sure, yeah, there is at least three. 
Q. There was one in '96, one in '97, and one in '98 they 
showed you; is that right? 
A. I don't remember the dates, Mr. Everdell. 
Q. Do you remember those three flights they showed you? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Well, when you met with the government and they showed you 
these three flights, you couldn't recall whether the woman we 
are referring to as 
actually flew on those flights or 
whether it was somebody else with her same first name? 
A. Correct. There was a -- the first names were the same, but 
there were no last names. 
Q. Now, sitting here today, you still don't know whether the 
women we're calling 
flew on any of those flights; isn't 
that right? 
A. Not to my knowledge. I mean, it was just -- I couldn't 
tell one from the other with no last name and 20 -- like you 
said, 20, 22 years ago. 
Q. Sure. But there were other people in Epstein's world who 
had that same true first name; isn't that right? 
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A. That is correct, yes. 
Q. For example, Epstein had an assistant with that same first 
name; isn't that right? 
A. That is correct. 
Q. And it was spelled the same way, wasn't it? 
A. Yes. 
Q. And you met that person, didn't you? 
A. Yes, I did. 
MR. EVERDELL: One moment, your Honor. 
Your Honor, I apologize for the delay. We have a 
slight choreography issue that we're dealing with here. I 
wonder if it might be appropriate if we could take a brief 
break to deal with it or I can try to do it without the issues 
of the choreography. 
MS. COMEY: Your Honor, I think a brief break would 
help with the choreography. I apologize. 
THE COURT: You mean to send the jury back to the jury 
room? 
MS. COMEY: I think that might be necessary, your 
Honor. There is an exhibit that needs to be submitted under 
seal instead of on the screens. 
THE COURT: Okay. Is it possible to move past this 
moment and then return to it later? 
MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor, actually, we can do that. 
If I'm permitted to fix the problem and then display it later, 
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we just have to return to this topic when we can figure this 
out. As long as I'm able to return to this topic and display 
things to the jury, that's fine. 
MS. COMEY: That's fine with me, your Honor. 
THE COURT: I don't usually tell lawyers what 
topics -- you're not going to get an asked and answered 
objection, if that's --
MR. EVERDELL: Yes. Understood, your Honor. 
THE COURT: So we'll keep going for now. I presume 
we'll hit the lunch break time and then you can do the 
choreography. 
MR. EVERDELL: That's fine, your Honor. We'll do 
that. We're breaking for lunch when? 
THE COURT: We have jury lunches at 12:30. If you're 
otherwise done by then, we'll break early and do that. 
MR. EVERDELL: Let me see if I can also fix it in the 
meantime. 
THE COURT: Mr. Everdell, my deputy reminds me, we 
have a close room with bathrooms, we can just do a short break 
for the jury. 
MR. EVERDELL: Thank you, your Honor. 
THE COURT: So we'll do a five-minute break, members 
of the jury. Ms. 
will take you just to that first 
room where the restrooms are. Thank you. 
(Recess) 
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(Jury not present) 
THE COURT: Are you set, Mr. Everdell? 
MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor, I have the copies. What I 
need to do is insert them into the folders. 
MS. COMEY: No objection, your Honor. 
THE COURT: Go ahead, Mr. Everdell. 
(Pause) 
Are you ready, Mr. Everdell? 
MR. EVERDELL: Yes. 
THE COURT: The procedure will be you will direct the 
jury to open the folder under the chair and turn to a 
particular page? 
MR. EVERDELL: Yes. This one will be done on paper, 
your Honor. We'll have it on the screen for the Court, the 
deputy, and the witness, but the jurors will just have it in 
paper, as will the government, and it will not be displayed to 
the public. 
THE COURT: This is choreography to maintain the 
anonymity of the witnesses who might be permitted to testify 
under pseudonyms? 
MS. COMEY: That's exactly right, your Honor. And for 
that reason, we're going to ask that the two exhibits that the 
defense is about to offer be offered under seal. 
THE COURT: I am grateful to both counsel for working 
that through. Thank you. 
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MR. EVERDELL: Yes, your Honor. 
THE COURT: We'll bring in the jury. 
(Continued on next page) 
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(Jury present) 
THE COURT: Members of the jury, I guess it ended up 
being more a medium break, but you're getting your steps in. 
So, we are ready to proceed, Mr. Everdell, whenever 
you're ready. 
MR. EVERDELL: Thank you, your Honor. 
BY MR. EVERDELL: 
Q. Hi again, Mr. 
A. Hi. 
Q. So when we broke, we were talking about other people in 
Epstein's world who had that same first name as we were talking 
about as 
; right? 
A. Yes. 
Q. And you said that Epstein had an assistant with that same 
first name? 
A. Yes, there was another person with that same name. 
Q. And spelled the same way? 
A. Correct. 
Q. And you met that person? 
A. Yes. 
MR. EVERDELL: Now, just for the Court, the deputy, 
and for the witness, if you could please display LV3A and LV3B, 
if you can display them together. 
Q. Do you see those, Mr. 
A. Yes, I do. 
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Q. Those are two photographs; is that right? 
A. That's two photographs. 
Q. Do you recognize the person in those photographs? 
A. Yes, I do. 
Q. Is it the same person in both photographs? 
A. Yes. 
Q. And you know that person's name? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Without telling us the name, is that the person we've been 
referring to just now that has the same first name as 
true first name? 
A. That's correct, yes, it is. 
Q. And is that a fair and accurate depiction of that woman? 
A. Yes. 
MR. EVERDELL: The defense offers LV3A and LV3B. 
MS. COMEY: No objection so long as they are sealed, 
your Honor. 
MR. EVERDELL: We offer them under seal, your Honor. 
THE COURT: LV3A and LV3B are admitted under seal 
consistent with my ruling allowed certain witnesses to testify 
under pseudonyms to protect their privacy. 
(Defendant's Exhibits LV3A, LV3B received in evidence) 
MR. EVERDELL: Thank you, your Honor. Now if I could, 
with the Court's permission, members of the jury, you can take 
out the manilla folders that are under your chairs, but please 
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don't open them yet. 
I would just, with the Court's permission, instruct, 
especially the jurors who are here on the right side of the 
jury box, as you look at the photos, because they are under 
seal, please do it in such a way that you do not display what 
you're looking at to the members of the gallery. So keep that 
manilla folder upright so no one could see, if you would. 
Is that right all right, your Honor? 
THE COURT: Yes. 
MR. EVERDELL: Is it okay with the government? 
MS. COMEY: Yes, your Honor. 
MR. EVERDELL: If you would open the folders and 
please look at what's been marked as LV3A and LV3B. When 
you've had a chance to look, you can return the folders under 
your chair. And you can take that down. 
BY MR. EVERDELL: 
Q. Now, Mr. 
, you spoke to this person in the photos on 
a number of occasions; is that right? 
A. That's correct. 
Q. In fact, you've spoke to her frequently enough that you 
even had her phone number in your cellphone; right? 
A. That's correct. 
Q. And she traveled frequently with Mr. Epstein on his planes; 
isn't that right? 
A. Yes. 
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Q. But that woman is not 
, is she? 
A. Correct. 
Q. And you testified earlier that you often didn't meet the 
passengers on the flights, you were just given their names 
sometimes before takeoff; right? 
A. Correct. 
Q. So, for all you know, there may have been many other people 
with that same first name as 
first name who traveled on 
Epstein's planes? 
A. True. 
Q. But the bottom line is, you don't know whether 
was on 
any of those three flights where there is a passenger listed 
with 
true first name? 
A. Not the three flights you made reference to. Without the 
last name, I didn't know which one you were referring to or who 
it was. 
Q. Thank you. I want to ask you just about a few more 
flights. 
A. Sure. 
Q. Are you familiar with Prince Andrew, the Duke of York? 
A. Yes, I am. 
Q. He is the son of Queen Elizabeth II of England, is he not? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Did he ever fly on Epstein's planes? 
A. Yes, he did. 
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Q. Do you recall the first time when he flew on the plane? 
A. I do not. 
Q. Do you recall someone named Emmy Tayler? 
A. Yes. 
Q. She was one of Ghislaine's assistants, wasn't she? 
A. Yes, she was. 
Q. She started working for Ghislaine in around 1997 or so; 
isn't that right? 
A. I don't know the exact date and I actually didn't remember 
the name until you brought it up, but that's correct, that's a 
name from the past. 
Q. Well, did Emmy Tayler fly on Epstein's planes? 
A. Yes, she did. 
Q. Do you recall the first time she flew? 
A. I do not. 
Q. Are you familiar with the name Andy Farmer? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Do you recall meeting or seeing anyone named Andy Farmer on 
any flights? 
A. I don't remember. I know the name, but I think we're going 
back a long way. 
Q. Well, to your knowledge, is there any record of anyone 
named Andy Farmer ever flying on 
A. I don't know of any record. 
MR. EVERDELL: Just one moment, your Honor. 
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Mr. 
Q. Mr. 
I'll ask we put up for the Court, the deputy, and 
LV4 and LV5. 
, do you see those documents in front of you? 
A. Yes, I do. 
Q. Each of those documents has a name on it; isn't that right? 
A. Yes. 
MR. EVERDELL: Without objection, I believe we will 
offer these under seal as LV4 and LV5. 
MS. COMEY: No objection, as long as they're under 
seal, your Honor. 
THE COURT: LV4 and LV5 are admitted to the extent of 
my rulings that certain witnesses may testify pursuant to 
pseudonyms in order to protect them. 
(Defendant's Exhibits LV4, LV5 received in evidence) 
MR. EVERDELL: At this point, I will ask the members 
of the jury if the government is okay to pick up their folders 
one more time. 
MS. COMEY: No objection, your Honor. 
THE COURT: Go ahead. 
MR. EVERDELL: It's the same procedure as before. I'm 
going to ask you to look at the documents that are underneath 
the two photographs you've already looked at. Please do not 
show any of them to the members of the gallery. 
BY MR. EVERDELL: 
Q. Mr. 
, I'm going to start with what's now in evidence 
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as LV4; all right? 
A. Yes. 
Q. I'm going to refer to the person there as Kate, okay? 
A. Okay. 
Q. Now, LV4 has a true name on that exhibit; is that right? 
A. Correct. 
Q. Do you recognize 
true name, the one that's on the 
paper of LV4? 
A. Not really. 
Q. Do you recall meeting or seeing anyone with 
true 
name on any of the flights? 
A. Not to my knowledge. It's not jumping out at me at all. 
Q. To your knowledge, there is no record with 
true name 
ever flying on any of Epstein's flights? 
A. I don't recall any of them. 
Q. Now please look at LV5. That has a full name on it, too, 
doesn't it? 
A. Yes. 
Q. And that person's first name is -; 
correct? 
A. Correct. 
Q. I'm going to refer to that person by her first name, 
, okay? 
A. Okay. 
Q. Do you recognize 
full name that's on the paper, 
LV5? 
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A. I do not. 
Q. Do you recall meeting or seeing anyone with 
full 
name on any flights? 
A. I do not. 
Q. And to your knowledge, there is no record of anyone with 
full name flying on any of Epstein's flights? 
A. Not to my knowledge. I don't have any memory at all. 
Q. Mr. 
, during your testimony so far, you've mentioned 
the names of some pretty important people; isn't that fair to 
say? 
A. Yes. 
Q. You already said that former president Bill Clinton flew on 
some of the flights? 
A. Yes, he did. 
Q. And Prince Andrew on some of the flights? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Itzhak Perlman, the famous violinist, on some of the 
flights? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Donald Trump, before he was president, also flew on 
Epstein's flights; isn't that right? 
A. Yes, he did. 
Q. He flew on them a number of times; right? 
A. There was more than once I believe, yes. 
Q. Sometimes he flew with his family members, too; right: 
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A. I don't know -- I don't remember that. I certainly 
remember President Trump, but not nearly the other people 
associated with him. Like I said, if it was something special 
that would get embranded in my head, I certainly remember the 
president. 
Q. Did Robert Kennedy Jr. also fly on his plane? 
A. I don't remember. I'm not remembering that one. 
Q. What about Senator John 
the former astronaut? 
A. I do remember Senator 
yes. 
Q. Former Senator George Mitchell also flew on his plane? 
A. I do remember. 
Q. The actors Kevin Spacey and Chris Tucker also flew on his 
plane? 
A. I remember them, as well. 
Q. It's fair to say that these are all pretty high profile 
people; is that right? 
A. Correct. 
Q. And these are people who the public at large would be 
interested in? 
A. Sure. 
Q. And these are all people who are subject to a great deal of 
media attention and scrutiny; is that right? 
A. I would assume so, yes. 
Q. And these are all people who might have legitimate privacy 
concerns about their goings on? 
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A. Correct. Yes. 
Q. Mr. 
, I think you were asked as part of your 
employment to sign a nondisclosure agreement? 
A. That is correct. 
Q. Now, when you were asked to sign a nondisclosure agreement, 
you didn't think it was unusual, did you? 
A. Not at all. 
Q. And you certainly didn't take it to mean that you needed to 
sign it so you wouldn't disclose some kind of illegal activity 
that was happening on the plane, did you? 
A. No, of course not. 
Q. You never saw anything that came close to that; right? 
A. Correct. 
Q. You just took it to mean you couldn't write a book about 
the stuff and the people you were interacting with; right? 
A. That's correct. Several of my colleagues have signed the 
same or similar documents in my profession. It's a fairly 
normal request. 
Q. So for people who fly private jets, this is a fairly common 
occurrence? 
A. That is correct, sure. 
Q. You have a lot of people, high profile people we just 
mentioned, who don't want necessarily all their business 
written about in a book; right? 
A. Exactly. 
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Q. I want to ask you a little bit about where you stayed when 
you flew to Epstein's residences. All right? 
A. Okay. 
Q. Now, I believe your home is near Palm Beach; is that right? 
A. Yes, it was. 
Q. So when you flew to Palm Beach, you stayed in your home; 
right? 
A. Correct. 
Q. That's where you're based? 
A. Correct. 
Q. When you flew to New York, where did you stay? 
A. The first part of my employment with Mr. Epstein, I stayed 
in a hotel, but then later on, I was offered to stay at a 
building he owned, an apartment building on East 62nd or 66th 
Street. So I had my own apartment. 
Q. Was that 301 East 66th Street? 
A. That is correct. 
Q. Is that where your partner, copilot Dave Rogers also 
stayed? 
A. That's correct. 
Q. And that's an apartment building? 
A. That is correct. 
Q. These are basically corporate apartments? 
A. Correct. 
Q. Do you know if Epstein owns that building or rents those 
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apartments? 
A. I don't know the actual business of it. It was to my 
knowledge that he owned the building. 
Q. But it's safe to say that you and 
stayed there 
on your trips to New York? 
A. That is correct. 
Q. Do you know if any other Epstein employees stayed there? 
A. Yes. 
Q. So you saw some other employees in the building when you 
were there; right? 
A. Correct. 
Q. For example, you saw 
in the 66th Street 
building; is that right? 
A. That's correct. 
Q. Do you remember any others you saw there? 
A. The other person was the one we can't say the name. 
Q. Okay. So you saw the person whose photographs we just 
looked at, LV3A and LV3B; right? 
A. That is correct, yes. 
Q. You saw that woman in that apartment building? 
A. That is correct, yes. 
Q. But you never saw the woman we're referring to as 
there, did you? 
A. No, not -- no. 
Q. All right. Now, for the ranch in New Mexico, your 
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recollection is that Epstein bought the ranch I think sometime 
in the mid 1990s; is that right? 
A. That's correct. 
Q. And when he first bought the property, that large main 
house that we saw pictures of hadn't been built yet right? 
A. That's correct. 
Q. That house was under construction for several years; right? 
A. That's correct. 
Q. I think you said it was finished towards the end of the 
'90s, 2000? 
A. Correct. 
Q. So you stayed when you went to the ranch in the mid to late 
'90s -- well, where did you stay? 
A. In the early part of the mid '90s, I stayed at the Ranch 
Central in the bunkhouse rooms, and then later on I built a 
home on the ranch. 
Q. I'll ask you about that home in a bit. But for the first 
part, you stayed in Ranch Central; right? 
A. Ranch Central, correct. 
Q. And the ranch hands and the property manager stayed there, 
as well? 
A. They stayed in the other buildings associated with Ranch 
Central, but mostly the Ranch Central lodge or bedrooms were 
for guests that were on the aircraft. But everybody stayed, 
really, at Ranch Central, like you said, employees or workers 
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on the ranch that lived there. 
Q. And you said that Epstein, before the main house was built, 
stayed in that triple-wide trailer you called the lodge; is 
that right? 
A. That's correct. 
Q. Okay. And you've described it already, I think from the 
outside, it had a deck; is that right? 
A. That's correct. 
Q. And it sort of looks nicer than a trailer does from the 
outside, it was outfitted that way? 
A. Correct, yes. 
Q. About how big was it? 
A. It was probably around two 2,000 square feet. 
Q. You went inside it? 
A. Yes. 
Q. How many times were you inside that triple-wide trailer? 
A. Many times. 
Q. And you described the interior before, but you mentioned a 
number of bedrooms. Can you just describe a little bit when 
you walk in the front door where things are situated from the 
front door entrance, the different rooms? 
A. Sure. When you walked in the front door, there was 
immediately to your left, there was a fireplace on the wall. 
Across from the fireplace, there was a couch that faced the 
fireplace. You went further in, you're in the middle of the 
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