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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK 
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, 
v. 
GHISLAINE MAXWELL, 
Defendant. 
Before: 
20 CR 330 (AJN) 
Jury Trial 
New York, N.Y. 
November 30, 2021 
8:50 a.m. 
HON. ALISON J. NATHAN, 
APPEARANCES 
DAMIAN 
United States Attorney for the 
Southern District of New York 
BY: 
Assistant United States Attorneys 
HADDON MORGAN AND FOREMAN 
Attorneys for Defendant 
BY: JEFFREY S. PAGLIUCA 
CHRISTIAN R. EVERDELL 
LAURA A. MENNINGER 
-and-
BOBBI C. STERNHEIM 
-and-
RENATO STABILE 
Also Present: 
District Judge 
, FBI 
NYPD 
Sunny Drescher, 
Paralegal, U.S. Attorney's Office 
Ann Lundberg, 
Paralegal, Haddon Morgan and Foreman 
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(Jury not present) 
THE COURT: Looks like we have everybody. Matters to 
take up, counsel. 
MS. COMEY: Nothing from the government, your Honor. 
MR. EVERDELL: Nothing, your Honor, but note we have 
put the folders under the chairs as we agreed yesterday. 
THE COURT: And the government has seen -- well, I 
guess you didn't see them, but you are aware of them? 
MS. COMEY: We have seen the outside of the folders, 
your Honor. 
THE COURT: Mr. Everdell, there are two folders. 
MR. EVERDELL: There is one folder with two documents. 
THE COURT: One folder with two documents. And then, 
as we discussed, he'll direct us as necessary to make sure 
everybody can follow along. 
I think the only thing I wanted to raise is that, 
assuming the timing works out, I would like to speak with the 
juror who had the trip planned, with the court reporter 
present, of course, to see if there is additional information 
about the ability to change that plan to make sure it's not 
weighing on my mind. Without objection to that? 
MS. COMEY: No objection, your Honor. 
MR. EVERDELL: No objection, your Honor. 
THE COURT: So if they're here a little on the early 
side, I'll do that before, otherwise I'll do it at the break. 
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MS. STERNHEIM: Judge, I have an issue I would prefer 
to raise at sidebar very quickly. 
THE COURT: Okay. 
(Continued on next page) 
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(In open court) 
THE COURT: I'll note I received a report from the 
district executive office that, once again, today, everyone 
who's appearing to watch the trial is being accommodated, 
either in this court or in the overflow courtrooms. There are 
empty seats available for everybody who wishes to observe the 
public trial. 
With that, anything else before we wait for the 
jurors? 
MS. COMEY: No, thank you, your Honor. 
MR. EVERDELL: No, your Honor. 
THE COURT: Thank you so much. 
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(In open court) 
THE COURT: I spoke to the juror with the travel plans 
and the information is that dates can't be changed and they 
can't cancel and it would be of some significant hardship. The 
juror is, I think, more concerned about the spouse's reaction. 
At one point, they did say, "If I have to proceed, I can. I 
understand." On the other hand, they mentioned some level of 
distraction and concern. 
So, I'll hear your suggestion. 
MR. PAGLIUCA: Your Honor, I understood that the Court 
was going to -- there were two options the Court was 
considering. One was seeing if the juror could change plans, 
and if that didn't work, the Court was considering breaking for 
the juror's anticipated vacation. That's what I understood the 
Court to say. 
If the juror can't change the plans, our preference 
would be, not frankly that we want to delay the trial, but my 
preference would be to keep the juror and accommodate the 
juror's travel plans, your Honor. 
MS. COMEY: Your Honor, the government's preference 
would be to keep the trial moving, keep the trial days as 
scheduled, and excuse the juror if those days become necessary 
for this case. 
THE COURT: Just to be clear about what we're talking 
about. So given the holiday, we're not going to sit the 23rd 
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or the 24th, and it's the weekend, Christmas weekend, 25th, 
26th. The juror would be gone the 27th, 28th, would not make 
sense to return for one day of that week. So, really, it would 
be a 10-day break in the trial. I don't think that makes 
sense, Mr. Pagliuca. I know I mentioned that, but I'm not sure 
I had that fully in mind at the time, and that's practically 
what we would be talking about. 
MR. PAGLIUCA: I appreciate that, your Honor. Again, 
I frankly don't want to delay this trial. The intention here 
is, first, I don't know which juror this is, and that would 
make a difference in my analysis here, frankly. 
THE COURT: I mean, to be candid, that's why I'm not 
telling you, because -- I'm not telling either side because 1 
think under the veil of ignorance is a better place for 
everybody to be. 
MR. PAGLIUCA: Let me be more specific, your Honor. 
I'm not asking to know the specific juror, but what would make 
a large difference to me is whether this person is in the 
alternate pool versus the main pool of jurors. I would have 
less of a problem excusing the juror if the juror was in the 
alternate pool as opposed to the main pool. And the reason 1 
say that is we carefully exercised peremptory challenges in 
this case, both to the main pool and the alternate pool. Had 
we understood that if this juror's plans couldn't be changed, 
we would have made a different choice while the entire venire 
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was still available and we would have gone with the choice of 
seating the one juror, the number I don't remember off the top 
of my head, but the one juror who had dropped off of the 
alternate pool as opposed to doing something else. That would 
have been the choice we would have made at that point. 
THE COURT: But you actually had that option with this 
information available to you yesterday. The government 
supported that move of having seven alternates and you declined 
that option. So even with the information that we might face 
this issue, you chose not to go that route. 
MR. PAGLIUCA: But, your Honor, my view, that's 
because we understood that the Court was not going to excuse 
the juror. That was my clear understanding. The transcript 
says whatever it says. 
THE COURT: Fair enough. It was not with a 10-day 
pause in the trial in mind, and I suppose the new information 
is the juror telling me that there is some level of distraction 
as a result of this concern, which was not what was indicated 
yesterday when the discussion was that they would make every 
effort to try to move it. Having apparently now made that 
effort, they can't move it. 
MR. PAGLIUCA: I understand, your Honor. I think my 
position is clear and the Court will do as the Court sees fit. 
THE COURT: I don't want to do a 10-day break in the 
middle of the trial. That doesn't make sense. I think, 
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really, the option is just to encourage them to take a last 
shot at any effort to move it, but I think we're going to end 
up in the same place. I'm wishing we had kept that additional 
juror. I think I have to excuse the juror. 
I'll have a discussion in which I just say one more 
time, is there anything else to explore regarding cancellation 
or moving it, and if the answer to that is no, I think I will 
excuse the juror. I'll step down. 
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(In open court) 
THE COURT: I had an additional conversation with the 
juror. He was confident there was no way to move it. He said 
he could cancel it, they would lose money, it was a burden, he 
was distracted by it, so I had to excuse juror number 58. 
All our other jurors are here. They're just finishing 
up settling in. So we can proceed as soon as Ms. 
brings them out. 
Anything to take up? 
MS. COMEY: No, thank you, your Honor. 
MR. EVERDELL: No, your Honor. 
THE COURT: I think they'll be ready momentarily. So 
I'll sit. 
MS. COMEY: Your Honor, would you like the witness in 
the witness box? 
THE COURT: That would be great. Thank you. 
(Witness present) 
We need about two more minutes. 
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- direct 
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(Jury present) 
THE COURT: Thank you, members of the jury. I hope 
you had a pleasant evening. Thank you so much for being here 
ready to go on time. I greatly appreciate it. We will resume 
with the direct examination of Mr. 
Mr. 
, I remind you are under oath. 
THE WITNESS: Thank you, your Honor. 
THE COURT: Ms. Comey, you may proceed. 
MS. COMEY: Thank you, your Honor. 
, resumed. 
DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUED 
BY MS. COMEY: 
Q. Good morning, Mr. 
A. Good morning, Ms. Comey. 
Q. I'd like to pick up where we left off yesterday talking 
about Mr. Epstein's employees and his office. 
THE COURT: Ms. Comey, could you adjust the microphone 
a little bit higher. 
MS. COMEY: Yes. Thank you, your Honor. Is this 
better? 
THE COURT: Yes, that's better. 
MS. COMEY: Thank you, your Honor. 
Q. Mr. 
, I'd like to pick up where we left off 
yesterday talking about Mr. Epstein's office and his employees. 
A. Yes. 
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- direct 
Q. Based on your interactions with and observations of 
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Mr. Epstein's employees, where in the hierarchy did Ms. Maxwell 
fall? 
A. Ms. Maxwell was number 2. It was definitely Mr. Epstein 
was a big number 1. 
Q. What makes you say that Ms. Maxwell was the number 2 in 
your experience? 
A. She was the one that pretty much handled most of the 
finance, my expenses, spending in the office. 
Q. What, if any, assistants did Mr. Epstein have, other than 
Ms. Maxwell? 
A. As far as secretaries or personal assistants, is that what 
you mean? 
Q. Personal assistants. 
A. He had an array of personal assistants, almost like 
professional shoppers, because there was a lot of items that 
needed to be purchased for all of the properties that were 
being acquired. So there were several people that were 
personal assistants. 
Q. How about Ms. Maxwell, did she have personal assistants? 
A. Yes, I would consider Ms. Maxwell a personal assistant. 
Q. My question was, did Ms. Maxwell have her own personal 
assistants. 
A. Oh, I see. Yes, she had assistants, as well. 
Q. What were the names of some of the personal assistants you 
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