EFTA01244755

2 
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3501.000-007 
Page 21 of 94 
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EFTA_00090523 
EFTA01244775

DRAFT 
1 
MP: 
Detective Michele Pagan 
2 
3 
KB: 
Kathy Back 
4 
MP 
ID. 98059. reference case number 05-368. The tine now, by my watch, is 
• 
• 
approximately 8 minutes past 2pm on 3/15/05. (Inaudible) High Ridge Family 
7 
Center. Sable Palm School 
8 
UNK Just High Ridge Family Center. 
9 
MP: 
Okay, the High Ridge Family Center. Present also is.. could yOU state your name 
10 
 
plane? 
11 
12 
MP' 
Spell your name please? 
13 
14 
 MP- 
And your date  of birth? 
15 
18 
MP: 
And you are? 
17 
CB 
Cathy Back. Family Therapist. 
18 
MP. 
Could you spell your name please? 
19 
KB: 
K-A-T-H-V B-A-C-K. 
20 
MP' 
And you're her family therapist? Am I correct? 
21 
KB* 
Yes. 
22 
MP 
Okay. I'm here bday; M, 
and I have stated briefly why I'm here is in 
23 
reference to an Incident that happened to a friend of yours, o' a girl you Know. 
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DRAFT 
• 
I 
MP: 
Are you lying about anything? 
2 
■ 
No. IS swear on the bible. 
3 
MP: 
Okay. Swearing to God, that's good enuugh forme. 
4 
swear lo GOO. 
5 
MPS 
Okay. Is there anything else you'd ike to talk tome about? 
6 
■ 
No, because that's about....nothing else about the whole thing. 
7 
MP: 
.:SO"'Ings!t• Yeltr0M no' ISYtiai19:"Mqi iiiikm
y 
:144-4
- .(wi-fv.,fi: : 
8 
keek.no!I twiil sweaA corny meineestrave...: 
Y 
• 
9 
&Of • tOb' Mori vfffahhairinittex Othio.rnebociy:Meiintigi'; 
, 
10 
Yes. I know what hiving SenWith somebody tneani-
4.1 
11 
MP: 
Okay. You. at ix) time. touched his penis? 
12 
At no time did I buch his penis. 
13 
MP- 
At any time. did he touch you 
14 
■ 
At no time... 
15 
MP: 
Besides putting his hands... 
16 
■ 
Besides that. no times did he touch me. 
17 
SAP- 
And just so I can be sure, you sew him whacking off once. 
18 
Yes, I saw him. 
19 
MP: 
Okay. And as far as you think... 
20 
I Think. I know, well, I couldn't say I know, but it's the same notes were being 
21 
made when he was (inaudible). 
22 
FAR 
And that's ft. I thank you very much. ThIs WO conclude the Interview. The tine 
23 
now by my watch is approximately 3:05 
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• 
• 
IN RE: JEFFREY EPSTEIN 
DRAFT 
VIRDOTAFED INTERVIEW OF 
r,  roc 
3501.000-007 
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DRAFT 
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Page 21 
1 
A 
(Shaken head no.) 
2 
C 
Okay. ?hip CS3t it baniaally on irrestigation, on 
3 ape,. investigation, so r Apprecia7e it Nast we discuss stays 
4 her0. Okay? 
S 
A 
JP,-huh. 
6 
D 
Don't tell anybody ltat wa, lost we talked. Okay? 
7 
A 
Okay. 
9 
Q 
A 
Did you.erer hhve-any.inteiceurse with !flea 
No. 
, 
10 
Q 
NC oral? 
11 
A 
(Shakos head no.) 
12 
Q 
nothing? 
13 
A 
rattling else. 
14 
0 
May. Pm going to show you s group of 
15 photographs 
I'm going to show you a group of six 
:6 photographs. Okay? I'm trying, trying to ace if this 
17 is it these six photos 
Okay? it's important that you look 
16 at ail nix or them Ltd be sure who you pick as the parson as 
19 
Okay? She may or nay not be in those six photos but 
20 it's important for you to plot the right nne. *key? 
21 
A 
:3h-huh 
22 
Q 
Take your time looking at thine six photos there. 
23 
A 
I don't see her, 
0 
She', not it those photos theme? 
25 
A 
No 
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• 
DRAFT 
1 
2 
3 
4 
5 
MP: 
Defective Michele Pagan 
KB: 
Kathy Back 
MP 
#8059, relerence case number05-368. The tine now, by my watch. to 
6 
aPProxinelely 6 minutes past 2pm on 3:15/05. onsudible) High Ridge Fatly 
• 
7 
Center, Sable Palm Scholl. 
8 
1.194K: Just High Rklge FamllyCenter. 
9 
MP: 
Okay, the High Ridge Family Center. Present also Is.. could you stale your name 
• 
1.) 
12 
MP: 
Spell your name please? 
13 
14 
Mr And your date of birth? 
15 
• 
18 
MP 
And you are? 
17
CB 
Cathy Back. Family Therapist. 
18 
MP: Cola you spell you name please? 
19 
KB: 
K-A-T-H-Y 
• 
20 
Mr. And you're her family therapist? Am I coned? 
21 
KB' 
Yes. 
22 
MP: Okay. Ern here today■and I have staled &lefty why I'm here Is in 
23 
reference to an Incident that happened to a fnend of Yours. 0' a Ohl YOU 1010w. 
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DRAFT 
MP: 
Okay. After everything was done. okay did he watch you gel dressed? 
2 ■ 
NO. Cease I was Deena dressed while he was out there getting the E300. I 
• 
3 
guess that's what he was doing. That's de on'y thing he Came beck In with. le 
4 
was still in a towel and stuff. 
5 
MPi 
In lie roan, at all, do you think ..and I don't know if there is or not. but do you 
6 
think there is anything in there that may have recorded what you did? 
7 
M 
Oh my gosh.... 
8 
MP: 
A video camera... 
a 
. 
Oh my gosh. I didn't think about that. There was lots of pieces there oould have 
12 
been one because there's pick:res, that mold have been, dont know . 
i t 
MP: 
When he walked out.. the reason why I ask is because he walked Out once and 
'2 
then creme back In, richr 
'3 
Yea. 
14 
MP: 
SO k Could be Just SO ho coukt whack off. I was just curious. I don'. know if 
to 
there is or not 
18 ■ 
if there was. I did not know about It 
• 
17 
MP: 
Okay. So you get dressed. you go downstairs Wise is %al woman toein? 
18 
. 
Downstairs taking to Mani 
the other gin 
19 
MP. 
Okay. 
20 
MI
 They were having a conversation 
21 
MP. 
Okay Ai any time. did he speak to you or does he know how old you are. did he 
22 
know how od you were? 
23 
y. Yes. And. as a matter of fact.. 
told meto say I was 18•.because 
eke 
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DRAFT 
1 
id tell him you'll is bdt'atis if yetire not. newontlet ythaeles.house 
2 
So I saki he was MS M I waiugifree massage he Wes Okra how ofd are-
• 
3 
you. And then in/41M But•tkinded *Odd malty-far because I dein't wanttu 
4 
make a sound Illte1 was lying eianYthhg. 
S 
MP- 
So whet other things did he ask you? 
6 
Um. how I know. 
what school I wont to. 
7 
MP• 
Old you tell him what school you went to? 
a 
■ 
Yeah but I told him-Weltngton. 1000 Stare Royet.Palin. 
MP 
Oki he a
 you skid cinideLyou ssensketeilit yoU telt Nm-Whit Wide you nekre 
10 
In? 
11 
■ 
Yeah. he was Ilke whet gradeare.yOu In? Because-I told him I was In 12" Veda 
'2 
stll. 
13 
PAP: 
Okay. 
4A 
■ 
Because I !Ole him I watt° so I hed to... 
15 
MP: 
So you told him you were in 12" grade? 
Yee. 
17 
MP: 
Are you sum? 
18 
■ 
Yes 
19 
MP- 
Okay. What else lid you talk about? 
20 
■ 
Urn. that's about it. And he was kind of es king me like how I knew. is 
21 
Woe 
to me end then he told me how he knew. end he wee like.. I was 
22 
kind of like, how do you kno. 
Cause I brought te the ccovereation. He 
• 
23 
said well I knoMbeceuee she's been working for ma fora long timo. And 
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DRAFT 
Page 9 
• 
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1 BY DETECTIVE 
2 
Q 
You said be used the vibrator but where did be use 
3 it? Micro did he touch you with it? 
4 
A 
Tn wy lever area 
5 
Q 
Your lower ana? Below your waist? 
6 
A 
(Inaudible.) 
7 BY DETECTIVE 
e 
Q 
Okay. tow long did he keep the vibrator on? 
9 
A 
A few seconds 
Nei long 
It wasn't Long. 
10 
Q 
Okay. Did you tell him you didn't like that or --
11 
A 
No. I told his -- I didn't tell tie no and I 
12 didn't tell hiss that I wasn't contestable 
I wasn't 
13 comfortable but T didn't tell bin that 
Mel like I said, I 
14 made the money that day se. 
15 
Q 
Did yin: guys distance enysbing? 
16 
A 
Nub-huh 
17 
2 
Did ha ask you your Age) 
10 
A 
Yeah. I toldhimIsea 18 
19 
Q 
You told hie you vets 18? Okay. Did he want you 
20 to come back? 
21 
A 
Be said he would lave if I ease back OOMatiMO but 
22 I never went back. 
23 
Q 
You never went book. You only went on time 
24 
What was Yolanda and Vanessa doing when you were 
25 apetalre? 
I 
I 
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9. 
TN FP: .1115FREY Et•SILIN 
DRAFT 
VI nlq,;17,051, :N:612ViEW 
01"
I 
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DRAFT 
Page 12 
or ho dlde•c ears? 
2 
a 
I don't think he mired. Vs told re 
3 the better.
4 
0 
the younger the hector,  
all right 
5 
• 
Pretty inch that's bow it worked 
Rs didn't 
6 let se just pet it this way, be -- I tried to bring hie. I 
7 tried to billow hies woman lobo sea 13 and he didn't really 
e like it 
9 
Q 
Rs didn't go for tel 
10 
A 
It's not that ha didn't go for it. It'e just that 
It be didn't ears for it 
And hs like. the 91t1s that are 
12 between the ages of Ilk. Is and 20 
13 
Q 
Okay 
18 
A 
But mostly the girls I -- 
think seed of them lie 
15 about their age. I know that when L started oft young 
26 think he know better to be:lover* 
I think ks know that I 
17 as younger, like 37, bit I told tin■ that I vas like II 
le 
Q 
Okay 
19 
A 
Mose-of the girls lied when they 90 in there. 
20 
42 
Right 
because 
she was II.. 
21 
A 
rah. 
'bet ot that 
betters lied. 
22 
0 
nos do you contact him? now do you know when he's 
23 in town and stuff like that' 
21 
A 
sells we 
25 
0 
Oh, 
ells you7 
the Younger 
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EFTA_00090535 
EFTA01244787

Pagel 
IN REt ..7EFrREY EPSTEIN 
• 
DRAFT 
VTRTATAPED INTERVIPX Or 
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EFTA_00090536 
EFTA01244788

Pegs 14 
1 
A 
tech 
$'.00 mole just to take my shirt otf. 
2 
Q 
Okay. And you said you didn't do 
3 
A 
No. 
4 
Q 
Okay. std he masturbste or the seeene tine^ 
5 
A 
Yeab. 
6 
g 
And d_d he, ever clLaos? 
7 
A 
Actually tne second tiro like it wacnsl that bad 
8 brieaise he was like on the phone all the time and so he 
9 wasn't paying attention to what we: going on 
10 
Q 
Did he ever at any point masturbate the second 
11 tie*? 
12 
A 
we. wot that I remember 
13 
Q 
C16 he ever ask yor any :Noer/Ona or speak to you 
14 cx aaa you anything? 
:5 
A 
Well, he tiled to talk vo yet just to nako you 
16 con£ortable with the situit1On like wee-e in you work and 
17 like how such do you make of your work and then he start. 
18 aityLog you ode ma.ce more with no, tut t didn't reel /Ito St 
19 was right. 
20 
Q 
Did he ever know your real age? 
21 
A 
After c while like because acembndy raid rut 
22 
0 
Trot you wet: --
23 
A 
Yeah. 
24 
: 
25 
tole US. we were surttoeted 'to nay we 
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Page 15 
I were CO 
2 
C 
Arc who to.d you that to say that' 
3 ■
4 
Q 
5 
A 
was the one wno brought everything to 
6 emetyote at school 
That's 'icy WO know annut it 
Then she 
7 took 
and 
took ae 
a 
Q 
Okay. So *soh time you did go, did 
9 foamy tar taking you or --
10 
A 
Wall, 
get 
se, with me twice I glass. And that 
11 was it. 
Thou I wit 
w_th 
12 
Q 
Okay. 
And did she make =nay? Did 
-kc 
17 annoy for taking you to him? 
.4 
A 
No, I was taking her.
Oh. you ware taking het 
So you brought --
16 
A 
She knew about it and !de ask me it I could tall 
77 her because she didn't know were it was 
But I didn't get 
.8 nosey Oct Of that, 
19 
Q 
Okay. Lid anybody ever help you do a massage 
2c `.:ist? 
21 
. 
A 
No.■ 
A
asked ma la do it with Mr and i didn't 
22 Cool comfortable 
23 
0 
All vIght. All right 
Isik to at eboat the third 
21 tin you want. 
25 
A 
1 don't remember 
:t was like kind of always --
9 
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DRAFT 
:NTURVIT4 OF 
Fag^ 1 
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DRAFT 
Page 13 
1 
A 
Ka cane. 
2 
0 
Okay. 
3 
A 
eareuas he was like. nods a big sigh of relief 
4 like he had been dons and he jugs! got right back up and --
5 
Q 
Do you know where he nee on? Was it on the 
6 towel? Was it an hinself? On the bed or --
7 
A 
I think it was on ;be towel like elide between his 
8 legs probably. 
9 
0 
Okay. AA I told you before and I explained to 
le you` mom, what he did was wrong, okay? 
11 
A 
Wh-hub. 
12 
Q 
I want to reassure you on that. Okay? 
13 
At any point did he ever link you to leave your 
14 phone number or --
15 
A 
Eo 
Ws didn't ask no for anything 
like I think 
16 be asked as my nave in the beginning 
17 
0 
Did he know your age? 
18 
A 
I don't think 
ha did. I think be did. 
19 Downstairs 
was like oh, well, Li.thSe ask you how 
20 old are you just may you're 14 but be newer asked me boo old 
21 I was. 
22 
0 
Okay, 
23 
A 
I thought you had to be a.e4;taie age to snows 
24 someone. 
25 
0 
Do you have any formal massage training, 
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?age 1 
IN NV.: 
JEFFREY EPSTELE 
DRAFT 
VIDEOTAPED INTERVIEN OP 
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Page 
1 
Q 
Ckay 
All right 
When you would go hook and do 
2 the maenads, wou:4 it, would it maintain tea same or were 
3 more thing. --
4 
A 
Well, no 
I WNW I would take my liana Off I lot 
5 of times or whatever but that was that. I cever slept with 
6 him. I never did anything to bin. Nothing like that 
7 
(1 
Okay 
Im it sate to scum that you provided the 
nasaage wearing only panties? 
9 
A 
Yee. 
10 
0 
Okay. During the massage chat you gave him, did 
11 he ever Couch you? 
12 
A 
Like I moan be would like touch my hip or wbetevec 
13 but I mean that, that'. really It 
14 
o 
okay. 
15 
A 
And if I ever like asked, if 1 ever said I wasn't 
16 Comfortable with it, he's like or I dean went you to touch 
17 me, he'd be like fine. (Inaudible.i 
lA 
C 
ic:1 this all occurred when you were la though. 
1g right? 
2u 
A 
un-hub. I bad bean 10 for like eight months, nine 
21 months already. My airlasayis in aloe co 1 had boon 18 for 
22 a 
23 
Okay. You're 19 now though right? 
24 
A 
VOS. 
25 
0 
it was about a year ago when you met him, 
9 
1 
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