EFTA01137794

Page 522 
1 
correct? 
2 
A. 
I do. 
3 
Q. 
And you know her through Jeffrey Epstein, 
4 right? 
5 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
6 
instruction. 
7 
A. 
I wrote an article about her father's 
8 death years ago, and I don't remember if I met her 
9 independently. I do remember meeting her through 
10 her -- I remember that the Lady Rothschild asked me 
11 to meet Jeffrey Epstein, and when Jeffrey Epstein 
12 came to meet me, he was with Ghislaine Maxwell. 
13 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
14 
Q. 
And when was that? 
15 
A. 
The first time I Jeffrey Epstein, which 
16 would have been in the summer of Leslie Wexner's 
17 59th birthday. That's all I can tell you is the 
18 summer of his 59th birthday because I then flew with 
19 Jeffrey Epstein to Leslie Wexner's 59th birthday. I 
20 was presented to Leslie Wexner. Leslie would like 
21 to get as birthday gifts interesting people that his 
22 friends had met during the year, and so I was 
23 Jeffrey Epstein's intellectual gift to Leslie 
24 Wexner. And it was that year that I met Jeffrey 
25 Epstein. That's the best I can date it. 
EFTA01137854

Page 523 
1 
Q. 
Okay. And Ghislaine Maxwell, you are 
2 aware, is involved in litigation with 
3 
right now, correct? 
4 
A. 
She is being sued by ' 
for 
5 defamation, not for the underlying offenses, which 
6 are beyond the statute of limitations, as I 
7 understand it, correct. 
8 
Q. 
And have you spoken with Ghislaine Maxwell 
9 about the allegations against her and her denials? 
10 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
11 
instruction. 
12 
MR. SCOTT: Don't answer it. It's 
13 
privileged. 
14 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
15 
4. 
I'm asking about your conversations with 
16 Ghislaine Maxwell, who's in a separate litigation, 
17 civil litigation for defamation. Have you 
18 personally spoken with Ghislaine Maxwell since these 
19 allegations? 
20 
A. 
If there's no objection, I will answer. 
21 
MR. INDYKE: There was an objection. Same 
22 
objection, same instruction. 
23 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
24 
Q. 
Is there a joint defense agreement related 
25 to the civil allegation -- actions regarding the 
EFTA01137855

Page 524 
1 
defamation actions that involve Ghislaine Maxwell 
2 and yourself? 
3 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection. 
4 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: What's the 
5 
basis -- can you explain to me what the basis 
6 
of the objection is -- and what was the 
7 
question? 
8 
MR. EDWARDS: Has Mr. Dershowitz spoken 
9 
with Ghislaine Maxwell since the allegations --
10 
since this defamation suit came about as well 
11 
as the defamation suit with Ghislaine Maxwell. 
12 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
13 
Q. 
Let me ask it cleaner. Have you spoken 
14 with Ghislaine Maxwell since January 2015? 
15 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
16 
instruction. 
17 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
18 
Q. 
So that I'm clear, there is a joint 
19 defense of the allegations regarding Ghislaine 
20 Maxwell that's New York litigation and this 
21 defamation case? 
22 
MR. INDYKE: There's a common interest 
23 
agreement in effect with respect to the 
24 
New York case and a common interest agreement 
25 
with respect to this case. 
EFTA01137856

Page 525 
1 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
2 
Q. 
Okay. Was 
lying when she 
3 says that she was taken by Ghislaine Maxwell and --
4 
MR. SCAROLA: Who negotiated the agreement 
5 
and when? 
6 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
7 
Q. 
Is there a common interest agreement in 
8 existence with respect to the allegations that have 
9 arisen since January of 2015 or that you contend 
10 covers that? 
11 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
12 
instruction. 
13 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
14 
Q. 
If there is, who negotiated this 
15 agreement? 
16 
MR. SCAROLA: Can we have a ruling on 
17 
propriety? 
18 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: You haven't 
19 
pushed me, so I let you go. 
20 
MR. SCAROLA: Can we have a ruling as to 
21 
whether we get to know whether Mr. Dershowitz 
22 
is a party to a common interest agreement with 
23 
Ghislaine Maxwell? 
24 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Counsel --
25 
MS. McCAWLEY: Also, just this is Sigrid 
EFTA01137857

Page 526 
1 
McCawley, if any of the individuals on the 
2 
phone are representing Ghislaine Maxwell, my 
3 
understanding is the person on the phone is 
4 
representing Jeffrey Epstein, not Ghislaine 
5 
Maxwell. That needs to be clarified. 
6 
MR. INDYKE: Correct. Correct. 
7 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: The answer is 
8 
correct? 
9 
MR. INDYKE: With respect to Mr. Epstein, 
10 
I can tell you there's a common interest 
11 
agreement with respect to this matter and a 
12 
common interest agreement with respect to the 
13 
Ghislaine Maxwell suit in New York. 
14 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Is 
15 
Mr. Dershowitz party to that? 
16 
MR. INDYKE: Mr. Dershowitz is party to a 
17 
common interest agreement with Jeffrey in this 
18 
case. And I believe -- I'd have to check, but 
19 
I believe that that would extend --
20 
MR. SCAROLA: We want an answer from the 
21 
witness as to whether the witness is a party to 
22 
a common interest agreement with Ghislaine 
23 
Maxwell. 
24 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Then ask the 
25 
question, because I haven't seen the question 
EFTA01137858

Page 527 
1 
asked yet. 
2 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
3 
Q. 
Are you a party to a common interest 
4 agreement with Ghislaine Maxwell? 
5 
A. 
If there's no objection, I'll answer it. 
6 
MR. INDYKE: I apologize. I thought we 
7 
were still operating under the original set of 
8 
objections. So I will repeat it. Same 
9 
objection, same instruction. 
10 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: With respect to 
11 
that question, you can answer. 
12 
A. 
My understanding is that I am still 
13 Jeffrey Epstein's lawyer. Jeffrey Epstein, I 
14 understand, has a common interest or joint defense 
15 agreement with Ghislaine Maxwell, so I have -- my 
16 understanding is that I am bound by a common 
17 agreement. 
18 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
19 
Q. 
Is this the same common interest agreement 
20 that we were talking about from 2005, or is this a 
21 separate common interest agreement that has been 
22 signed as a consequence of the lawsuits that have 
23 been filed since January 2015? 
24 
MR. INDYKE: If this is a new question, 
25 
I'll assert the same objection and the same 
EFTA01137859

Page 528 
1 
instruction. 
2 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: And I'm going to 
3 
overrule the objection. And you can answer 
4 
that. 
5 
A. 
My understanding is that it's a 
6 combination; that is, it reflects the previous 
7 agreement and that there is a new agreement that 
8 supplemented the previous agreement. 
9 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
10 
Q. 
When you say it's your understanding, is 
11 this understanding in writing; meaning, is there a 
12 written common interest agreement that has been put 
13 in place since January of 2015? 
14 
A. 
I don't know. 
15 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
16 
instruction. 
17 
MR. SCOTT: Can we take a recess when we 
18 
get a chance? 
19 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Yes, but I'm 
20 
going to instruct you 
21 
A. 
I don't know. I don't know the answer to 
22 that, whether there's additional writing or not. 
23 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
24 
Q. 
Last question, then we take a break. Have 
25 you signed any such agreement 
EFTA01137860

Page 529 
1 
2 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
instruction. 
3 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
4 
Q. 
-- since January 2015? 
5 
A. 
Since January? Not to my recollection. 
6 
MR. EDWARDS: We can take a break. 
7 
VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record. The 
8 
time is approximately 2:09 p.m. 
9 
(Recess was held from 2:09 p.m. until 2:26 p.m.) 
10 
VIDEOGRAPHER: Going back on the record. 
11 
Time is approximately 2:26 p.m. 
12 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
13 
Q. 
Going back to the photograph, was 
14 
lying when she says that she was taken to 
15 London where this photograph was taken? 
16 
A. 
I have no idea. 
17 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
18 
instructions. 
19 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
20 
Q. 
Was 
lying when she says 
21 that she was paid to have sex with Prince Andrew? 
22 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
23 
instructions. 
24 
A. 
Can you tell me what age she was when that 
25 happened? 
EFTA01137861

Page 530 
1 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
2 
Q. 
The photograph is printed in March of 
3 2001, which is when she's 17, which just means that 
4 the photograph was taken sometime before that date. 
5 So she was at least as young as 17 is the best that 
6 I can tell you. 
7 
A. 
Under the age of consent, that would be an 
8 act of prostitution 
If she was paid $15,000 to 
9 have sex with Prince Andrew at the age of 17 in 
10 England, she would be guilty of prostitution. 
11 
Q. 
My question is, was she lying when she 
12 says that she was paid to have sex with Prince 
13 Andrew? 
14 
A. 
I have no idea. 
15 
Q. 
You have met Prince Andrew, right? 
16 
A. 
I have. 
17 
Q. 
He sat in the back of your classrooms? 
18 
MR. SCOTT: Objection, asked and answered 
19 
twice. 
20 
A. 
Once, yes 
21 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
22 
Q. 
I think we went to Jeffrey Epstein sitting 
23 in your classrooms, but now I'm talking about Prince 
24 Andrew sat in your classroom as well, right? 
25 
A. 
Yes, once. 
EFTA01137862

Page 531 
1 
MR. SCOTT: I thought we went through 
2 
Andrew before; maybe I'm wrong. 
3 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
4 
Q. 
Have you, since the -- since January of 
5 2015, have you contacted Prince Andrew? 
6 
A 
No. I got a Christmas card from him. 
7 
Q. 
Have you spoke with him about the 
8 allegations that were alleged against Prince Andrew? 
9 
A. 
Not to him, but to -- not to him. 
10 
Q. 
Have you spoke to some representative of 
11 his, of Prince Andrew? 
12 
A. 
I need to know whether --
13 
MR. INDYKE: Guy, sorry, I was just cut 
14 
off for some reason. 
15 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Hold on a 
16 
second. Go ahead and restate your question 
17 
so -- Darren, can you hear now? 
18 
MR. INDYKE: Yes, I can. 
19 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
20 
Q. 
My question is, have you spoken with 
21 Prince Andrew or any representative of or for Prince 
22 Andrew since January of 2015? 
23 
MR. SCOTT: If any of that involved work 
24 
product on our part, I am instructing you not 
25 
to answer. 
EFTA01137863

Page 532 
1 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
2 
instruction on my end as well. 
3 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
4 
Q. 
Whether or not you have spoken with him 
5 would not be protected. 
6 
A. 
I have not spoken to him. 
7 
MR. SCOTT: That, I don't have a problem 
8 
with. 
9 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
10 
Q. 
Have you spoken with any representative of 
11 Prince Andrew since January of 2015? 
12 
A. 
Is there any objection? I don't think I 
13 have, but I think my lawyers have. But I don't 
14 think I have. 
15 
MR. SCOTT: Don't go into any work 
16 
product. 
17 
A. 
I don't think I have. 
18 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
19 
Q. 
Do you know that some representative of 
20 yours has spoken with some representative of Prince 
21 Andrew since January of 2015? 
22 
A. 
I think so, yes. 
23 
Q. 
Is Prince Andrew a party to any joint 
24 defense agreement? 
25 
A. 
Not that I am --
EFTA01137864

Page 533 
1 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
2 
instruction. 
3 
A. 
I'm not aware of any. 
4 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
5 
Q. 
Okay. Do you know which representative 
6 which of your representatives communicated with 
7 which of Prince Andrew's representatives? 
8 
A. 
No. I do remember being told, though, 
9 that there was a call from Prince Andrew's people to 
10 one of my lawyers, but that's all I know.  
11 
Q. 
So when I'm asking you whether 
12 
is lying about having sex with Prince Andrew 
13 when she was under the age of 18, do you know the 
14 answer to that question from --
15 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
16 
instruction. 
17 
A. 
Same answer. If it's based on her own 
18 statement, I have no reason to believe it. If 
19 there's other objective evidence, I'm not aware of 
20 it. So based on her own statements, since she in 
21 the same affidavit falsely accused me, I have no 
22 reason to believe she would be telling the truth. 
23 But I don't have any personal knowledge of that. 
24 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
25 
Q. 
What information do you have from Prince 
EFTA01137865

Page 534 
1 
Andrew's representative on that subject? 
2 
MR. SCOTT: Don't answer that question. 
3 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
4 
instruction. 
5 
A. 
I can say publicly --
6 
MR. SCOTT: Don't answer that. You've 
7 
been told. 
8 
A. 
Okay, I'm sorry. 
9 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
10 
Q. 
So 
makes the statement 
11 that she was made to have sex with Prince Andrew 
12 when she was underage, and you have looked at 
13 
statement and said, I don't 
14 believe it. Now the other person that would know 
15 the answer to that is Prince Andrew. 
16 
A. 
Who has denied it. 
17 
Q. 
So is it your statement now that Prince 
18 Andrew, through his -- through some agent of his or 
19 representative, has communicated to you or some 
20 representative of yours that he is denying that 
21 allegation? 
22 
A. 
Denied it in public. 
23 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
24 
instruction. 
25 
MR. SCOTT: Work product. Unless you know 
EFTA01137866

Page 535 
1 
from a public source. 
2 
A. 
I do. He's denied it in public. Also, if 
3 her story is true, it would not be underage sex, it 
4 
5 
6 
7 
8 
9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
would be above age sex if it occurred at the time 
she says it occurred in the place she says that it 
took place. And it would, therefore, be an act of 
prostitution under British law. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
So in your opinion, did she -- do you have 
information that indicates that 
committed an act of prostitution by having sex with 
Prince Andrew? 
A. 
I have no indication other than --
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
instruction. 
A. 
-- other than her own word, which I don't 
credit. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
Has Jeffrey Epstein spoken with Prince 
Andrew about the allegations? 
A. 
I have no idea. 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
instruction. Please wait until I get my 
objection. 
MR. SCOTT: Don't answer that question, 
EFTA01137867

Page 536 
1 
he's telling you. 
2 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
3 
Q. 
Ghislaine Maxwell has been friends and 
4 acquaintances of Prince Andrew for a very long time. 
5 You know that, right? 
6 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
7 
instruction. 
8 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
9 
Q. 
Is that privileged, the answer to that 
10 question, Ghislaine Maxwell's relationship with 
11 Prince Andrew? Let me ask it this way --
12 
MR. INDYKE: To the extent that 
13 
Mr. Dershowitz obtained that information in 
14 
connection with his representation of Jeffrey 
15 
Epstein, of course it is. 
16 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
17 
Q. 
I have a better way to go about this, 
18 then. Ghislaine Maxwell and -- you met her well 
19 before 2005, didn't you? 
20 
A. 
I did, yes. 
21 
Q. 
And Prince Andrew you met before 2005 as 
22 well, correct? 
23 
A. 
I think it was before 2005, yeah. 
24 
Q. 
And prior to 2005, you understood that 
25 Ghislaine Maxwell and Prince Andrew were social 
EFTA01137868

Page 537 
1 acquaintances, didn't you? 
2 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
3 
instruction. 
4 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: That deals with 
5 
if you have any nonprivileged. 
6 
A. 
I do. 
7 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Then I would 
8 
overrule the objection to that extent. 
9 
A. 
I've seen them together at a party on 
10 Martha's Vineyard given by Lady Rothschild. 
11 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
12 
Q. 
And back at that time, prior to your 
13 representation of Jeffrey Epstein, did he tell you 
14 that he had been introduced to Prince Andrew through 
15 Ghislaine Maxwell? 
16 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
17 
instruction. As Mr. Dershowitz previously 
18 
responded to the question about representation, 
19 
he said it was -- maybe he did not represent 
20 
Mr. Epstein in this case, but he represented 
21 
him in other cases. 
22 
SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I will overrule 
23 
the objection to the extent that you have 
24 
nonprivileged information that you can base the 
25 
answer. 
EFTA01137869

Page 538 
1 
A. 
Yes. And in a letter that Prince Andrew 
2 wrote to me thanking me for inviting him to my class 
3 and having the dinner for him at Harvard Law School, 
4 he made a reference to Jeffrey Epstein. 
5 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
6 
Q. 
And when was -- when did Prince Andrew 
7 write a letter to you? 
8 
A. 
When he came to my class at Harvard Law 
9 School, just a thank-you note. 
10 
Q. 
What was the approximate date of that 
11 letter? 
12 
A. 
I don't know. 
13 
Q. 
What was the approximate year of the 
14 letter? 
15 
A. 
I don't know. 
16 
Q. 
Do you still have the letter? 
17 
A. 
I'll check. 
18 
Q. 
Is there any reason why you haven't 
19 personally contacted Prince Andrew to discuss these 
20 allegations? 
21 
MR. SCOTT: Objection, hypothetical, 
22 
speculation. 
23 
A. 
Not easy to reach the Queen, not easy to 
24 reach the Prince. I don't know who I would call. 
25 
EFTA01137870

Page 539 
1 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
2 
Q. 
Couldn't you just call Ghislaine Maxwell, 
3 though? It's not that easy for many people. 
4 Couldn't you call Ghislaine? 
5 
MR. INDYKE: Objection. 
6 
MR. SCOTT: Argumentative. 
7 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
8 
Q. 
Do you know the circumstances -- as you 
9 sit here, the circumstances that led to this 
10 photograph being taken in London? 
11 
A. 
No. 
12 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
13 
instruction. 
14 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
15 
Q. 
Have you ever seen photographs or the 
16 copies of photographs of young naked teenage girls 
17 that were taken from within the closet of Jeffrey 
18 Epstein's home in Palm Beach? 
19 
A. 
Absolutely not. 
20 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
21 
instruction. 
22 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
23 
Q. 
Have you ever attempted to get those 
24 photographs from the law enforcement --
25 
MR. SCOTT: Let the lawyer make his 
EFTA01137871

Page 540 
1 
objection before you respond, Professor 
2 
Dershowitz. 
3 
MR. INDYKE: Finish your question, please. 
4 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
5 
Q. 
Have you ever attempted to obtain those 
6 photographs taken through the search warrant of 
7 Jeffrey Epstein's home from law enforcement? 
8 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
9 
instruction. 
10 
MR. EDWARDS: He's being instructed not to 
11 
answer whether he's ever attempted to obtain 
12 
the photographs? 
13 
MR. INDYKE: If it was done in connection 
14 
with his representation of Mr. Epstein, it's 
15 
work product. 
16 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
17 
Q. 
But I'm asking about communication that 
18 you had with law enforcement. Are you claiming that 
19 the communication you had with law enforcement is 
20 protected by privilege? 
21 
MR. SCOTT: He's not claiming anything. 
22 
He's being instructed by a lawyer. 
23 
MR. EDWARDS: Okay. Well, I want to 
24 
understand what the record is --
25 
MR. SCOTT: Then ask the lawyer, not my 
EFTA01137872

Page 541 
1 
2 
3 
4 
5 
6 
7 
8 
9 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
client. 
MR. EDWARDS: Darren, is that you? 
MR. INDYKE: That is me, yes. 
MR. EDWARDS: Are you saying that 
Mr. Dershowitz or any of Jeffrey Epstein's 
legal team, that their communication with law 
enforcement is privileged? 
MR. INDYKE: Whether or not such 
communication exists and if they've never been 
used, yes. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
Do you know whether the photographs of 
young, naked teenage girls that were taken within 
Jeffrey Epstein's home contain photographs of 
while she was a young girl? 
MR. INDYKE: Same objection, same 
instruction. 
A. 
Of course not. I've never seen those 
photographs. But here I can answer nowhere, if I 
ever was with Jeffrey Epstein in any of his homes, 
did I ever see a naked photograph of anybody except 
for a Rodin model, which was a sepia print in the 
entranceway, kind of a classic Rodin model print, 
but I've never, ever seen any photograph of any 
naked, underage, inappropriate -- my grandchildren 
EFTA01137873