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1 
Q. And, and how was it that you were in 
1 
2 
M.'s vehicle? 
2 
3 
A. I don't know why I, I was with her. I don't 
3 
4 
know if I was just hanging out with them, and I guess 
4 
5 
they wanted to go over there. 
5 
Q. And when did you first learn, when you 
6 
7 
were in this vehicle, that where you were going was 
7 
8 
Epstein's? 
8 
9 
A. They mentioned it in the car that that's where 
9 
10 
they were going. 
10 
11 
Q. And where were you geographically when 
11 
12 
they mentioned to you in this car that they were 
12 
13 
going there? 
13 
14 
A. Like what area? 
14 
15 
Q. Yeah. 
15 
16 
A. I have no idea. 
16 
17 
Q. Where, where were you in this — do you 
17 
18 
remember what day of the week it was? 
18 
19 
A. No. 
20 
Q. Do you remember what time of day it was? 
I 
21 
A. No. 
21 
22 
Q. Do you remember in what area of the city 
22 
23 
you were, if you were in the city? 
23 
24 
A. No, I don't know. I don't recall. 
24 
25 
Q. All you know is you were in a car with 
25 
Page 305 
a? 
2 
A. Correct. 
3 
Q. And how long had you been in the car 
4 
before you learned that they were going to 
5 
Epstein's? 
6 
A. It was a little while. I'm not sure exactly 
7 
how long. 
8 
Q. Roughly, your best estimate, how long? 
9 
A. Maybe ten minutes, 15 minutes. 
10 
Q. And why were you in the car? 
11 
A. I was — 
12 
Q. Were you — was there a plan that you were 
13 
going to be going someplace? 
14 
A. I was just hanging out with them, and 
15 
don't — I mean, I don't know if we were supposed to be 
16 
going somewhere or what was going on. 
17 
Q. Had they picked you up from some place. 
18 
A. No, I think I was with them, like hanging out 
19 
with them. 
20 
Q. Okay. And when you got 'M.'s car, 
21 
where were you? 
22 
A. In the backseat 
23 
Q. I mean, were you at, for example, her 
24 
house when you got in the car, or were you someplace 
25 
else when ou-all 
t in the car? 
1 
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Page 306 
A. I don't know exactly where we were at, but we 
were all together. 
Q. And you don't know why all of you had 
gotten in the car initially? 
A. Exactly. 
Q. So you don't know if you were going to the 
movies or shop or whatever? 
A. Yeah, ! don't remember. 
Q. But your best recollection is, about ten 
minutes after you got in this vehicle for some 
unknown purpose, you heard for the first time that 
this car was headed to Jeffrey Epstein's? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Who told you that? 
A. I don't remember who told me. One of them 
mentioned it. 
Q. And what did they say? 
A. That they're going to Jeffrey Epstein's house. 
Q. And what was your reaction? 
A. I don't want to go. 
Q. And what did they say? 
A. Well, you're going to come with us. 
Q. And did you, at any time say, stop, I want 
to get out? 
A. No. 
Page 307 
Q. And did you say anything else to them 
besides that you didn't want to go? 
A. I, I argued with them about not going and that 
it was disgusting = 
do that. 
Q. Had — dide indicate to you at that 
time or anytime before that conversation whether she 
had been back to Epstein's since your first visit? 
A. Between the time we're in the car and the 
first visit we went? 
Q. Yeah. 
A. Not that I know. 
Q. All right. To the best of your knowledge, 
was that her second visit? 
A. Yeah, to the best of my knowledge. 
Q. 
Did you know laga you were in the 
car that, 
whether or not... had ever been 
there? 
A. I, I don't -111tink — I don't know for 
sure, but I thinkM. walaing. her. 
Q. So you think that'll. had not been there 
before? 
A. That's what I think. 
. Okay. Did you have a conversation with 
A. Yeah I told her --
28 (Pages 304 to 307) 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051-976.2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601.061-976-2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601.051-976-2934) 
1a30246a•bc9d-4107-90a1-6373e816de0d 
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ge 3:J 
1 
Q. — where you warned her? 
2 
A. I told her not to go in the car. 
3 
Q. What did you tell her? 
4 
A. I told her It's not a massage, that it's other 
5 
things. 
6 
Q. You said you told her not to get in the 
7 
car? You mean, she was already in the car -
8 
A. Yeah, we were in the car. 
9 
Q. -- and while in the car you told her? 
10 
A. Yes. 
11 
Q. What is -- specifically, did you tell her? 
12 
A. That she shouldn't go because ifs not just a 
13 
massage; it's other sexual acts. 
14 
Q. Well, did you specifically tell her about. 
15 
your experience? 
16 
A. I don't remember exactly, but I'm sure — I 
17 
mean, I'm sure I did if I was flying to justify why she 
18 
shouldn't go there. 
19 
Q. I mean, you gave her as much detail as 
20 
possible, didn't you, to discourage her from doing 
21 
it? 
22 
MR MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
23 
BY MR. LUTTIER: 
24 
Q. Did you give her as much detail as 
25 
possible in order to discourage her from going? 
Page 
1 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
2 
THE WITNESS: I don't know. I don't 
3 
remember. 
4 
BY MR. LUTHER: 
5 
Q. Did you tell her that it was a, an a — an 
6 
older man who was going to be naked on a massage 
7 
table? 
A. Uh-huh, yes. 
9 
Q. Did you tell her he was going to — he was 
10 
likely going to masturbate in front of her? 
11 
A. Yes. 
12 
Q. Did you tell her that he was likely going 
13 
to touch her? 
14 
A. Yes. 
15 
Q. Did you tell her that she would likely be 
16 
unclothed? 
17 
A Yes. 
18 
Q. And what was her response when you told 
19 
her all of those things? 
21 
A. 
didn't care. 
21 
Q. Did you, did you tell her -- did you get 
22 
angry at her? 
23 
A. Yeah, we got in a
 about it 
24 
Q. That is you and M.? 
25 
A. Yes. 
1 
2 
3 
4 
5 
6 
7 
8 
10 
11 
12 
13 
14 
15 
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a 
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1.9 
21 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 • 
Page 310 
Q. What did, what did the fight consist of? 
A. That I thought she was stupid for going. 
Q. And your best friend was in the car, e, 
right? 
A. Yes. 
Q. And did you argue With. about it? 
A. I don't remember if I did or not. 
Q. Did you tell 
anything like, you know, 
you remember what appened last time; we shouldn't 
go there? 
A. I don't recall exactly saying that. I could 
have said that, but I don't know. 
Q. Do you remember anything about what you 
told 
A.., it was more about 
Q. Well, you were worric a out your best 
friend, weren't you? 
A. Yes, but she already knows what happened. 
Q. Were you in shock that your best friend 
would be doing this? 
A. WAS again, Yes. 
Q. And this was a 
driving this car, right? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Did that suggest to you that maybe, 
Page 
wasn't so traumatized by whatever occurred? 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
THE WITNESS: I don't know. 
BY MR LUTITER: 
Q. Were you surprised? 
A. I was surprised. 
Q. Did you ever have a conversation with 
about why she went back the second time? 
A. No. 
Q. Did M. tell you whether she was getting 
any money feW7or
,
 taking M.? 
A. No, I didn't know. 
Q. Okay. So, do you, sO —
A. I — Go ahead. 
Q. I didrft mean to cut you off. 
A. I was just going to say I figured that's what 
was happening. 
Q. Did you ask her? 
A. No. 
Q. Did you tell 
M
.
 
that 
was going to 
get money for taking 
r? 
A. No. 
Q. Did you tell M. whether she was going to 
get paid for going? 
A. No. 
29 (Pages 308 to 311) 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601.051-976.2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051-976-2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051-976.2934) 
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EFTA01076464

Page 312 
Q. Did M. indicate whether she knew she was 
2 
getting paid? 
3 
A. I'm sure she did. That's the 
was going. 
4 
Q. And what specifically did M. tell you in 
5 
response to your warnings? 
A. She didn't care. 
7 
Q. All right So how long did this ride take 
8 
to get to Epstein's? 
9 
A. I don't know, I mean —
10 
Q. More than a half hour? 
11 
A. From — I mean, I don't even know where we 
12 
were at but it was, it was more than 20 minute. 
13 
Q. And this whole time is it dedicated to you 
14 
telling your girlfriends that you don't want to go? 
15 
A. Not the entire time. I tried to talk them out 
16 
of it or tried to ta
n
 
out of it fora little 
17 
while, and she — 
. didn't listen, so... 
18 
Q. Okay. So 
was navigating the car. 
19 
She apparently remembered how to get to Epstein's 
20 
house. 
21 
A. I don't lmow how she — I mean, I don't know 
22 
if she spoke to 
again. I don't know exactly along 
23 
the lines how she got there again. 
24 
Q. But she navigated the car to Epstein's 
25 
house. 
Page 314 
1 
this, and the driveway goes to the side of the house, 
2 
and there's — I think there was garages on the side. 
3 
Q. Okay. And, and what kind of car did M. 
4 
have? 
5 
A. At that time? 
6 
Q. Yeah. 
7 
A. She's had a couple of cars. I'm going — I'm 
8 
going to, I'm going to guess it was her, a Lexus. 
9 
Q. You say you're guessing? 
10 
A. I'm pretty sure it was a texas. I don't know 
11 
100 percent because she borrowed her mom's car and stuff 
12 
like that. 
13 
Q. Was this her mom's ear that you-all were 
14 
in? 
15 
A. Her mom gave her that ear. 
16 
Q. Okay. So it was — do you remember what 
17 
model it *as? 
18 
A. No. 
19 
Q. Leather interior? 
20. 
A. I think it was leather. 
21 
Q. Okay. All right So you get to the 
22 
house. 
23 
A. Uh-huh. 
24 
Q. Where are you, where are you in the car, 
25 
in the Bent seat or bwleceat? 
Page 313 
1 
A. Yeah, she got to Epstein's house, but I don't 
2 
know how. 
3 
Q. Okay. When you got to the house, what did 
4 
you do? 
5 
A. I — 
6 
Q. I mean where did you park the car? 
7 
A. I think she's pulled — !mean, ha not going 
8 
to say definite, because I don't remember that, but I 
9 
think she pulled into the, the driveway that he had 
10 
through the gates. 
11 
Q. What kind of driveway is it? 
12 
A. What do you mean, what kind of driveway? 
13 
Q. Well, describe the driveway as best you 
14 
can. 
15' 
A. I know there was gates. I don't recall, I 
16 
don't know if there was two entrances or one. 
17 
Q. I mean, is it, is it like an asphalt-paved 
18 
driveway? 
19 
A. Oh, I have no idea-
20 
Q. Do you know any — do you know anything 
21 
about the driveway? 
22 
A. I don't remember. 
23 
Q: Where's the driveway in relationship to 
24 
the house? 
25 
A. Ifs —you go in, and then the house is like 
HinrAnrILSCAPALA 
Page 315 
1 
A. I'm in the backseat. 
2 
Q. And, and who — and M.'s driving. Is it 
3 
bucket seats in the front? 
4 
A. What's bucket seats? 
5 
Q. You know, were they bucket seats or a 
6 
bench seat in the front? 
7 
MR. MERMELSIEIN: Do they make bench seats 
8 
in the front anymore? 
9 
MR: LurflER: I'm, I'm dating myself. 
10 • 
BY MR. LUTITER: 
11 
Q. Do you know what a, a bench seat would 
12 
be — a bucket seat was, is, is individual seats. 
13 
A. Oh, it's individual seats. 
14 
Q. There's a console so you can't —
15. 
A. Oh, yeah, that's how it is. 
16 
Q. All right. So you're in the backseat 
17 
A. Uh-huh. 
18 
Q. Do you remember if you're behind the 
19 
driver or the passenger? 
20 
A. I think I was in the middle. 
21 
Q.. All right. All right. 
22 
A. I think because I was --
23 
Q.. So sitting on the hump, as they say? 
24. 
A. Yes. 
25 
Q. And what were you wearing? 
30 (Pages 312 to 315) 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkIns (601-061-976-2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051-976.2934) 
Electronically signed by Cynthia hopkins (601-051-976-2934) 
1a30246a-bc9d-410740a1.6373a616da0d 
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Page 316 
1 
A. I have no idea. 
2 
Q. What was 
wearing? 
3 
A. I have no igs& 
Q. What was M. wearing? 
A. I have no idea. 
6 
Q. And you don't know what time of day it 
7 
was? 
A. No. 
9 
Q. Okay. 
10 
A. During the day. 
11 
Q. When, when you get there, what happens? 
12 
A. I don't, I don't recall how we got in the 
13 
house or I don't remember how thaliappeasa All I 
14 
remember is they went upstairs, M. and 
and I 
15 
stayed in the kitchen area with the chef. There was a 
16 
chef there. 
17 
Q. Let's go back imo the driveway. Did 
18 
anybody come out of the house to meet you? 
19 
A. Not that I recall. 
20 
Q. Did you-all get out of the car and walk 
21 
someplace? 
22 
A. We walked — I mean, I think we walked into 
23 
the house. I don't recall. 
24 
Q. Well, did you just walk in the house, or 
25 
did you walk to a door, or his door? 
1 
2 
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Page 338 
Q. This house, this is this evil house that 
you've been to --
A. .Yes. 
Q. — where you had a traumatic experience, 
right? 
A Yes. 
Q. So why didn't you just not go in the 
house? 
A. I don't know. 
Q. Okay. But, anyway, you get to the door. 
What happens? 
A. They go upstairs. I don't —
Q Wait a minute. Somebody has to answer the 
door, right? 
A. I don't remember that. 
Q. Who answers the door? 
A. I don't remember. 
Q. Was it Jeffrey Epstein? 
A. Honestly, I don't recall. I don't know. 
Q. You don't know who was there, so you can't 
describe what they were wearing? 
A. No. 
Q. Were there other people in the house? 
A. All I remember is the chef. 
Q. Okay. And what's his name? 
Page 317 
1 
A. I'm sure we walked to a door. 
2 
Q. What door? 
3 
A. The front door. 
4 
Q. The front of the house? 
5 
A. Yes. 
6 
Q. Okay. Do you remember what the door was 
7 
like? 
8 
A. No. 
9 
Q. Is it a double door or single door? 
10 
A. I have no idea. 
11 
Q. Has it got anything on it? 
12 
A. I don't recall that. 
13 
Q. All duce of you walked up to the door? 
14 
A. From what I vaguely remember. 
15 
Q. Okay. Is there anything that prevented 
16 
you from just staying right in the car? 
17 
A. No. 
18 
Q. Why didn't you just sit in the car? 
19 
A. I don't know. 
20 
Q. Why didn't you walk away? 
21 
A. Walk away where? 
22 
Q. Just walk away; walk down the street 
23 
A. To go where? 
24 
Q. Anywhere you wanted to. 
25 
A. Down to the !lei b
wd.._...g.a ..
......,
00d? 
PROSE 
Page 319 
1 
A. I have no i 
2 
Q. Did you see
 on this occasion? 
3 
A. I don't remember seeing her, no. 
4 
Q. Okay. Well, if you don't remember seeing 
5 
her and there was a chef, but you can't tell us who 
6 
answered the door? 
7 
A. No. 
8 
Q. Do you recall seeing Jeffrey Epstein on 
9 
this occasion? 
10 
A. Yes, I did. 
11. 
Q. Okay. When did you see him? 
12 
A. At the end of everything. 
13 
Q. Okay. And you had not seen him since you 
14 
left the previous time? 
15 
A. Exactly. 
16 
Q. All right. So, you say In end.. 
17 
walked upstairs. 
18 
A. Yes. 
19 
Q. You weren't up there? 
20 
A. No. 
21 
Q. And you don't know what happened up there? 
22 
A. I figured — 
23 
Q. You don't know what happened? 
24 
A. I don't know what happened up there with them. 
25 
Q. Did anybottell ru tat happened up 
31 (Pages 316 to 319) 
COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (8014514704934) 
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Page 320 
1 
there? 
2 
A. No. 
3 
Q. When you kfl, did they tell you what 
4 
happened up there? 
A. No, not that I remember. They didn't tell me 
anything about it. 
Q. And you walked from the front door to the 
3 
kitchen. 
9 
A. 
— from the front door to the kitchen? 
10 
Q. Yeah. 
11 
A. Yeah, I'm guessing. How else would I get 
12 
there? 
13 
Q. Well, did somebody meet you at the front 
14 
door? They must have, right. 
15 
A. There must have been somebody, but I cannot 
16 
recall who it was. 
17 
Q. You didn't just walk into the guy's house. 
18 
A. No. 
19 
Q. So somebody met you there. 
20 
A. Yes. 
21 
• 
anAdr 
usposmtaierbso?dy, did that somebody take 
22 
23 
A. Yes. 
24 
Q. Sow
 you 
when that somebody 
25 
started takingM. and M. upstairs? 
Page 321 
1 
A. They probably took me to the kitchen first, 
2 
and then they took them. I didn't just walk to the 
3 
kitchen, I know that. 
4 
Q. If you don't recall, tell me you don't 
recall. I don't want to, I don't want you to guess. 
o 
A. Okay. I don't recall. I just know I wasn't 
7 
upstairs and I ended up in the kitchen. 
8 
Q. Okay. So you don't know whether you told 
9 
somebody you didn't want to go upstairs or you just 
10 
walked to the kitchen? 
11 
A. I know I didn't walk to the kitchen alone. 
12 
Q. All right. So you go to the kitchen. All 
13 
right. You get paid no money for going there. 
14 
A. No, I did get paid. 
15 
Q. You did? 
16 
A. Yes. 
17 
Q. Well, who paid you money for going there? 
18 
A. Jeffrey Epstein. 
19 
Q. What did you get paid for? 
20 
A. Because I was there and I was pissed off, so I 
21 
told him that he needs to give me money. 
22 
Q. So you demanded of Jeffrey Epstein --
23 
A. Not demanded, but... 
24 
Q. Did you say the words to him that you 
25 
wanted money? 
1 
A. Yes. 
2 
Q. Tell me what words you used. 
3 
A. I don't know the exact words. 
4 
Q. Well, what's your best recollection of the 
5 
words? 
6 
A. I don't have a best recollection because I 
7 
don't remember. 
8 
Q. Well, why did you tell him to pay you 
9 
money? 
10 
A. Because I was upset with even being there. 
11 
Q. Well, what had you done that you thought 
12 
you were entitled to money for? 
13 
A. I didn't do anything. 
14 
Q. So why did you think he would pay you 
15 
money? 
16 
A. Because I don't !mow why. I just — for 
17 
being in his house and him putting me through what he 
18 
did, I was pissed off and --
19 
Q. What even made you think that he would 
20 
give you mo 
21 
A. Becal:M. was there. 
22 
_Q. Oh, were you asking for money for bringing 
23 
M.? 
24 
A. No, because 1 didn't bring her. 
25 
Q. Okay. So how much did you ask for? 
Page 322 
'13 
Page 323 
1 
A. He gave me 200. 
2 
Q. How much did you ask for? 
3 
A. I didn't ask for anything. 
4 
Q. Well, you just told me you told him that 
5 
you wanted money. 
6 
A. Yeah, but I didn't ask for a specific amount. 
7 
Q. So you well, you — did you just say, 
8 
want money? 
9 
A. I don't recall how I asked him. 
10 
Q. So you might have asked him fora specific 
11 
amount 
12 
A. I don't think I did. 
13 
Q. You just have no recollection? 
14 
A. !don't have no, no. 
15 
Q. But you know you got money. 
16 
A. Yes. 
17 
Q. You went to this horrible place and you 
18 
got money for going there? 
19 
k 
Yes. 
20 
Q. And you took the money? 
21 
A. Yes. 
22 
Q. Asa matter of fact, you demanded the 
23 
money. 
24 
MR. MERMEISTEN: Form. 
25 
THE WITNESS: I didn't demand it. 
32 (Pages 320 to 323) 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601.061.976.2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-061-976-2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-061.976-2934) 
• 
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1 
BY MR. LUITIER: 
2 
Q. You asked for it? 
3 
A. Yes. 
4 
Q. But no recollection about the amount? 
5 
A. No. 
6 
Q. Do you know what the denominations of the 
7 
bills were? 
8 
A. No, I know he gave me $200. 
Q. Okay. Was it cash? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Do you know what the denominations were? 
A. No. 
Q. When you asked for the money, what did he 
say to you, if anything? 
A. He said no. 
Q. And then what was the discussion between 
you and he? 
A. Then we left, and then he called me back to 
come back and get it. 
Q. Oh, so it wasn't when you were in the 
house initially? 
A. No, it was. I don't know where it was, but it 
was in the house or outside of the house. 
Q. Well, stop. La's go slow. 
A. Okay. 
1 
2 
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16 
17 
18 
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A. I don't, I don't, I really don't know. 
Q. Was she there an hour? 
A. I really don't know. 
Q. Okay. And when she came down, did she 
have any money? 
A. Yeah, she had money. 
Q. What did she have? 
A. I don't remember how much money she had 
Q. Did she have cash? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Did you see the cash? 
A. I remember seeing the cash, but —
Q. What denominations were they? 
A. I have no idea. 
A. 
Q. 
A. 
Q. 
A. 
Q. 
A. 
Q. 
A. 
Q. 
Did you ask her what she got paid for? 
I figured what she got paid for. 
Did you ask her what she got paid for? 
No. 
Did you — 
I assumed it. 
Did she tell you what she got paid for? 
No. 
And you don't know how much it was? 
No. 
When you say you, you know what she got 
Page 32 
1 
Q. Whore were you on this occasion the second 
2 
time when you first laid eyes on Jeffrey Epstein? 
3 
A. I was in the kitchen. 
4 
Q. Okay. 
5 
A. I don't remember if he came down to the 
6 
kitchen and got us to walk us out, or how it happened. 
7 
I cannot tell you because I don't remember. 
8 
Q. Well, did he come down from upstairs? Did 
he come down alone? 
A. I was in the kitchen. 
Q. W e the other two girls with him? 
A. M. came down first. 
Q. Oka 
rad —
Q. 
there was you, and n, 
and the chef 
in the kitchen? 
A. Yes. Like, it was me first. And then I guess 
went upstairs. I don't know what they did, but she 
cant down, and then.. was still up them for a little 
while. 
Q. How long was 
upstairs? 
A. I don't know. 
Q. Did.. tell you what happened? 
A. No. 
Q. Was she there more than a half hour? 
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Page 327 
paid for, did she -- what did you think she was 
getting paid for? 
A. I was thinking she was getting paid $400. 
Q. For what? 
A. Bringing-. 
Q. Okay. And so after she comes down, when 
do you next sec either. or Mr. Epstein? 
A. 
comes down. I don't remember -- I mean, 
.., 
I think I saw came down in the kitchen, and I 
don't remember how, but I know I saw Jeffrey Epstein. 
And we left after I... 
Q. Well, when you saw Mr. Epstein, you were 
in the kitchen? 
A. I'm, Pm pretty sure. I don't remember 
exactly is what I'm say 
to you. 
Q. Was, were both 
and 
present when 
you saw Mr. Epstein for the first occasion on this 
second visit? 
A. Yes, yes. 
Q. Did you speak words to him? 
A. Yes. 
Q And is that when you asked him for the 
money? 
A. Yes. 
Okay. And what did he say to you at that 
(561) 832-7500 
33 (Pages 324 to 327) 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051.976.2934) 
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Page 328 
Page 330 
1 
time, no? 
2 
A. No. 
3 
Q. What happened next? 
4 
A. I said, fine, and I left. 
5 
Q. Okay. When is it that he, that he 
6 
contacted you? 
7 
A. He called me like two seconds after we left 
8 
the house. 
9 
Q How did he contact you? 
10 
A. By phone. 
11 
Q. Okay. And you spoke directly with him? 
12 
A. Yes. 
13 
Q. And what did he say to you? 
14 
A. Come back and get the money. 
15 
Q. And so what did you do? 
16 
A. I went right back and got the money and left. 
17 
Q. Well, you, you had to tell somebody in the 
18 
car to turn arotmd. 
19 
A. Well, yeah, ■. 
20 
Q. Okay. And what did you tell them? 
21 
A. They heard the phone. They heard what I said 
22 
on the phone. 
23 
Q. Yeah. Okay. And so you went back. Did 
24 
you go up to the door? 
25 
A. Yeah. 
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Q. Did M. tell you anything? 
A. No. 
Q. Did you ask either of them anything? 
A. No. 
Q. So, this traumatic event that you had, you 
went back, you sat down. You had warned your friend 
don't do it. 
A. Yes. 
Q. But when you got in the car, you had no 
conversation with either girl about what happened 
upstairs; is that right? 
A. I already — you're right, yes. 
Q. Were you in tears? 
A. Was I in tears? 
Q. Yeah. 
A. No. 
Q. Did you feel horrible? 
A. !didn't want to be there. 
Q. Did you feel so bad that you wanted to get 
money from Mr. Epstein? 
A. !felt, I felt mad about being there —
Q. Did you --
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
BY MR. LUTTIElt: 
Q. -- feel like you did anything to get paid 
1 
2 
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together? 
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A. No. 
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Page 329 
Q. Were you met at the door by anybody? 
A. Him. 
Q. Okay. And what did he do? 
A. Here. 
Q. But you don't know how much he gave you? 
A. No, no, 200. He gave me 200. 
Q. He gave you 200, right. And then you got 
in the car? 
A. Yes. 
Q. And you left. Have you seen Mr. Epstein 
since? 
A. No. 
Q. Okay. And when you got in the car to 
ride, did you guys leave there and go someplace? 
A. I don't recall. 
Q. You don't know where you went? 
A. No. 
Q. Do you know how long you were in the car 
Q. Did M. ever tell you what happened 
upstairs? 
A. No, I already, I figured what happened. 
O. My question is did II tell you? 
A. No. 
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Page 331 
for? 
A. No. 
Q. Just an opportunity to get money? 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
THE WITNESS: No. 
BY MR. LUTTIER: 
Q. Didn't bother you to take the money, did 
it? 
A. No. 
Q. What did you use the money for? 
A. I have no idea. 
Q. Did you spend it on luxury items that you 
wanted? 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Form. 
THE WITNESS: I don'treinewber. It could 
have been anything. It could have been from 
food to — I have — like, I don't — I really 
don't know. 
BY MR. LUTTIER: 
Q. Did you ever have a conversation with 
at any time about what °muffed? 
A. Not that I recall. I mean, I could have, but 
. I don't recall it 
Q. Do you recall where you returned to —
A. No. 
34 (Pages 328 to 331) 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
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Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-061-976-2934) 
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Page 332 
Page 334 
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1 
Q. — alter this visit? 
2 
A. No. 
3 
Q. Did 
ever tell you i f she ever went 
4 
back to Mr. Epstein's? 
A. I think she went back again. 
Q. Did I. tell you whether she ever went 
back to Mr. Epstein's? 
A. I don't I don't know what instance she was 
9 
telling me about. She told me she had a bad experience 
10 
with him. 
11 
Q. Did la ever tell you whether she went 
12 
back to Mr. Epstein's? 
13 
A. I don't know about 
14 
Q. Okay. And since that day when you went up 
15 
and took the money in your hand from Mr. Epstein, 
16 
your 5200 for sitting in his kitchen, you've never 
17 
seen him since then? 
18 
A. No. 
19 
Q. Okay. When was the first time you told 
20 
anybody about that incident? 
21 
A. The first time I told anybody besides like 
22 
• 
already knowing? 
23 
Q. Yeah. 
24 
A. First time I told an 
y? 
25 
Q. Yeah, other than an and 
Page 333 
A. I don't — anybody? Like any, anybody at all? 
2 
Q. Anybody, Yeah, anybody. 
3 
A. I don't recall the first person that I told. 
4 
Q. How long was it after that that you told 
5 
somebody? 
6 
A. It was a little while. 
7 
Q. How long is a little while? 
A. Well, I held it in fora while, so l don't —
I mean, I don't have an exact time frame It's just —
Q. Less than a month? 
A. No. 
Q. More than a month? 
A. No. It was years. 
Q. Years, plural, years? 
A. A year. 
Q. So, after — other than s and I., 
did . 
you — strike that. 
• 
Did ou have any further conversation with 
i n
IN and 
about going to Epstein's house; that 
is, either e times that you went the first time or 
the second time? Ell ou have, ever have any other 
conversation with 
or El. about it? 
A. Not that I can recall, no. 
Q. Ever'? 
A. Not that I can recall. 
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Q. Right up to today. 
A. I mean, I. 
and I vaguely talked about it, 
but it's not like we got into it. It was, it was 
nothing really. 
Q. Okay. So both of these incidents happened 
sometime in the year 2002? 
A. Yes. 
Q. And since 2002, for the last seven-Plus 
you've never had a conversation with IIIII or 
4, 
about it? 
I can't remember if I have or not. 
Q. Who is the first person you ever had a 
conversation with, or told anything about the 
Epstein matters?
A. I honestly —
MR. MERMELSTEIN: You're, you're. 
MR. LUITIER: Not your lawyer, yeah. 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: No, not the lawyer, no. 
You're talking about any visit? 
MR. LUITIER: Yeah. 
MR. MERMELSTEIN: Okay. 
MR. LUTHER: Any, any visit. 
THE WITNESS: The only person I can think 
of that I lust told, because it was 
. 
embarrassing to me, it was probably a 
Page 335 
therapist. 
BY MR. LUTTLER: 
Q. Well, who was that? 
A. I can't recall. 
Q. Well, what — in what state? 
A It was probably in Virginia. 
Q Okay. And, and you didn't go to Virginia 
until what year? 
A. 2006. 
Q Okay. And so is it one of those two 
therapists you told me, the psychologists or the 
psychiatrist that you told me you went to see in 
Virginia? 
A. Yeah. 
Q. So for, what, over four years you remained 
silent and never said anything to anybody about it? 
A. Kept it inside, yes. 
Q. Okay. And you didn't tell your boyfriend 
about it? 
A. No. I recently told my husband about it. 
Q. When, what you say recently, when was the 
first time you told your husband about it? 
A. In Virginia. 
Q. After your wedding? 
A. Yes.
35 (Pages 332 to 335) 
PROSE COURT REPORTING. AGENCY, INC. 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-061-976.2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia Hopkins (601-051-976-2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia trot:tins (601-051-976-2934) 
la30244a4x9d41 07400 43730111dad 
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Page 336 
Page 338 
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Q. And what was his reaction? 
A Disgusted. 
Q. What did he say? 
A. Why would you go to an older man's house to 
give him a massage and do sexual things that happened. 
He still gets upset about it. 
MR. LUTHER: I'm not going to finish. 
This is probably as good a place as any to 
stop. Ifs a quarter to 4:00, and we'll just 
arrange a time to reconvene. 
BY MR. LUTHER: 
things. 
A 
Q. 
A. 
A. 
A. 
Q. 
A. 
Q. 
A. 
Q. 
Well, let me, let me ask a couple of 
Where do you live now? 
I live in Virginia 
Olat.y. What, what's the address? 
Its
 —
Yeah. 
Yeah. 
Apartment 
And you live there with your husband? 
Yes, and my --
Is he out — is he badc to the US? 
Yes. 
So he's stationed at a base there? 
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A. But ho might reenlist. 
Q. All right. 
A. So I don't know. 
MR. LUTHER: Okay. 
' THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record at 
3:44 k 
This marks the end of this portion 
of the deposition. 
(Witness excused.) 
(Deposition was adjourned) 
Page 337 
1 
A. No, I mean, he's at the Norfolk base, but he 
2 
comes home on a daily basis. 
3 
Q. Okay. But he's here in the US? 
4 
A. Yes. 
5 
Q. And how long has he been back? 
6 
A. What was it? When did he get back? When I 
7 
finished — Dec -- Fm going to say December. 
8 
Q. ()fit° — of 9? 
9 
A. Yea.
10 
Q. Okay. And, and what are your immediate 
11 
plans about where you-all are going to live? 
12 
A. After he gets out of the military? 
13 
Q. No, right now. I mean, do you plan to 
14 
continue to live in Virginia? 
15 
A. Yes. 
16 
Q. How often do you come to Florida? 
17 
A. I, when he's there, I rarely come here. 
18 
Q. Okay. And is he scheduled to go out on 
19 
any other deployments? 
20 
A. As of now, no. 
21 
Q. When does he get out of the military? 
22 
A. Next April. 
23 
Q. Apiil °fit° or April of '11? 
24 
A. 'U. 
25 
Q. Okay. 
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Page 339
CERTIFICATE OF OATH 
THE STATE OF FLORIDA 
COUNTY OF PALM BEACH 
I, the undersigned authority, certify that 
JANE DOE NO.5 personally appeared before me 
and was duly sworn on the 26th day of May, 
2010. 
Dated this 10th day of May, 2010. 
Orka.c: att•isiAs 
Cynthia Hopkins, RPR, FPR 
Notary Public - State of Florida 
My Commission Expires: February 25, 2011 
My Commission No.: DD 643788 
 ..etASZT=St 
36 (Pages 336 to 339) 
PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051478-2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601451-976-2934) 
Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601451476.2934) 
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Page 340 
Page 342 • 
1 
CERTIFICATE 
2 
THE STATE OF FLORIDA 
3 
COUNTY OF PALM BEACH 
5 
I, Crthia Hopkins, Registered Professional 
Reporter, Florida Professional Reporter and Wary 
6 
Public in and for the State of Florida at large, do 
hereby cerillY that I was atthaized to and did 
report said deposition in stenotype; and that the 
foregoing pages we a true and correct transcription 
8 
of my shorthand notes of said deposition. 
9 
I further artily that said deposition was 
taken at the time and place hereinabove set forth 
10 
and that rho taking of said deposition was commenced 
and completed as hereinabove set out. 
It 
I further catty that I am not attorney or 
:2 
counsel of any of the parties. nor am I a relative 
or employee of any attorney of counsel of party 
13 
connected with the action. nor am I financially 
interested in the action. 
14 
The foregoing cauficanon of this transcript 
15 
does not apply to any reproduction of the same by 
any means Wens under the direct control and/or 
16 
direction of the certifying reporter. 
17 
Dated this IOth day of March, 2010 
18 
19 
20 
21 
AS
crlie
Cynthia Hopkins, RP FPR 
22 
23 
24 
25 
1 
CERTIFICATE 
2 
3 
THE STATE OF FLORIDA 
4 
COUNTY OF PALM BEACH 
5 
I hereby certify that I have read the foregoing 
6 
deposition by me given, and that the statements 
7 
contained herein are true and correct to the best of 
8 
my knowledge and belief, with the exception of any 
9 
corrections or notations made an the errata sheet, 
10 
if one was executed. 
11 
12 
Dated this 
day of 
13 
2010. 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
19 
JANE DOE NO. 5 
20 
Job #1312 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
I 
DMZ 
Much 10k 2010 
TO. 
JAM DOE NO.S 
do Sart S. klornetagia 
5fERMELS1804 &HOROWITZ, r 
18101 lesottec Ocoletor0 
Sae 211i 
Allot Marl& 13140 
9 
to 
11 
12 
I) 
14 
15 
la 
13 
le 
19 
20 
21 
22 
23 
24 
25 
IN RE to Melt 2n Fp*: 
CASENO : ell-th40119-MARRABOHMON 
flea it notlot tat co PS*, the 204k ct 
Petony. 2010, you toe rye dcpmeica 
abtherefttn4 mime. Al the lime, we. 464 
wain *eon It it thaw remssary Ixoya. svi 
rue tkpositko. 
As 10004421eweed 4:k S llMnnplu'abi 
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c/angen or ortcticat Iha>oe with v mac 0:001a 
be toed co Qc ernes 3xvt. sung F"," 4'4 bx 
mmtedred elarits DO NOT one ens 
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ttamars ar:Intm: arty tots. be smelt/ %In 
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me 
t.aadorctrcadrd tip tl* depceLixa 
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C3m1W414 4,161. 11111.FPR 
10o keeeby vents eipxoeet 
Waft 
NO. 5 
Page 341 
Page 343 
ERRATA SHEET 
2 
IN RE: 
JANE DOE NO. 2 VS. EPSTEIN 
at 
Cynthia11°0So 
3 
DEPOSITION OR JANE DOE No. 5 
TAKEN: 
Maury 26,2010 
4 
JOB NO.: 
1312 
5 
DO NOT WIT ON TRANSC1UPT - ENTER CHANGES HERE 
PAGE # LINE S CHANGE 
REASON 
6 
7 
8 
9 
10 
11. 
12 
I3 
14 
15 
16 
17 
Please forward the original signed arato sheet to 
this office so that copies may be distributed to all 
18 
potties. 
19 
Under penalty of perjury, I declare that I have read 
my deposition and that it is true and correct 
20 
subject to any changes in form or substance entered 
here. 
21 
22 
DATE: 
23 
24 
SIGNATURE OF 
DEPONENT: 
25 
37 (Pages 340 to 343) 
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