EFTA00181510

Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
39 
M. Epstein 
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ESQUIRE 
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present? 
A. Not to me. 
Q. Has he ever indicated to you that he 
was to be a confidential informant for the 
government? 
A. No. 
Q. When is the first time that you 
remember your brother having some sort of an 
affiliation with Leslie Wexner? 
A. It's a while ago. I'm not sure 
exactly when, but at least 10 -- I'm trying to 
think where I was in my life. 
I don't know, maybe 20 years ago. I 
don't know how long he has been working with 
him, but he has been working with him for a 
while. 
Q. Do you know where they met? 
A. No. 
Q. Do you know what brought them 
together? 
A. Somebody introduced them. Somebody 
introduced them, somebody who was in the 
insurance business. 
Q. Do you remember who that was? 
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Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
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M. Epstein 
A. No. 
Q. And what was your understanding of 
the relationship between your brother and 
Leslie Wexner? 
A. He manages money. 
Q. As far as you knew, that's all that 
there was? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Do you remember at any point in time 
your brother being sexually abused when he was 
younger? 
A. No. 
Q. Would you know it if it happened? 
A. By who? 
Q. Anybody. 
A. No. When we were kids I would have 
probably known about it. 
Q. Do you know of him ever seeing a 
psychologist in his lifetime? 
A. No. 
Q. So even through today's date, to the 
best of your knowledge, he hasn't seen one? 
A. I don't know. 
Q. When did you first learn that your 
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.WOPY 
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EFTA00181551

Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
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M. Epstein 
brother, as an adult, was sexually attracted 
to young girls? 
MR. COHEN: Objection. 
A. I didn't learn that. I mean, I saw 
it in the newspapers, but that's newspapers. 
I never heard anything directly I didn't know. 
Q. The first time you ever knew it was 
the same way that we learned it, was through 
the newspapers? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Once he started working for Bear 
Stearns, did you hang out with your brother on 
a personal level? 
A. Not very often. 
THE WITNESS: Excuse me, one second. 
(Brief pause.) 
THE WITNESS: Sorry. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. Has anyone ever asked you about his 
attraction to young girls? 
A. No. People made comments about the 
newspaper articles what they were hearing, but 
they didn't ask me. It was just more of 
letting me know that they knew what was going 
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EFTA00181552

Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
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on. 
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M. Epstein 
Q. Who would that have been? 
A. Friends, mutual acquaintances, people 
I knew. People started E-mailing me telling 
me my brother was in the newspaper. So I got, 
you know --
Q. When was that? 
A. Whenever the articles starting coming 
in. 
Q. But there were articles on your 
brother that precede the criminal 
investigation. And there are people that knew 
your brother and saw him around town prior to 
that investigation. 
Anybody tell you about his attraction 
to young girls back then or ask you about it? 
A. No. Most people that we know know 
that we are not that close and they don't talk 
to me about him and, you know, the only people 
that we know together are really people from 
the old days. 
Q. Okay. So is this really -- other 
than newspaper articles, this deposition, as 
we sit here today and my previous statements 
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Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
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M. Epstein 
that he engaged in sex with under-age girls, 
is the first you are hearing of it? 
A. Well, other than the newspaper 
articles? 
Q. Right. 
A. Yes. I mean, I read some things in 
the papers about it. I don't understand your 
question. 
Q. Has anybody else ever talked to you 
about, you know, your brother is engaging in 
sex with under-age girls or targeting young 
girls for sex? 
A. No. 
Q. Do you now have any business 
relationship with your brother? 
A. No. 
Q. Have you ever? 
A. What do you mean by business 
relationship? 
When we were kids we used to lend 
each other money. So I don't want to say no 
and get caught for saying something like that, 
but we are not in business together. Our 
names have never appeared on any business 
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EFTA00181554

Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
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M. Epstein 
document together. 
Q. And why is that? Obviously your 
brother is very successful, so why would you 
not be associated with him? 
A. I made my own success. 
Q. What is your brother's current net 
worth? 
A. I have no idea. 
Q. Do you know approximately what it is? 
A. I don't know my net worth. I don't 
know his. 
Q. What properties does he own that you 
know of? 
A. He has a house in Florida, a house in 
New York and a house in New Mexico. 
Q. Have you been to the ranch in New 
Mexico? 
A. I was only at the property once, 
before he built anything. After he bought it, 
I was in New Mexico. 
Q. How long were you there? 
A. I was in New Mexico three or 
four days. 
Q. With your brother? 
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Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
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M. Epstein 
A. No. 
Q. How many times have you been at his 
Florida house the same time he was there? 
A. Not in the last decade ever. 
Q. Prior to the last decade, I think you 
told me a dozen times? 
A. 20 years ago, probably a couple dozen 
times. 
Q. 
And how long would you stay? Would 
you ever stay there overnight? 
A. Yes. Years ago, I would maybe for a 
couple of days, for a weekend. I was working 
then, so I'd only have weekends. 
Q. During that period of time, would he 
have girls coming over during the day? 
A. No, he had a girlfriend at the time 
most of the time. 
Q. Who was that? 
A. Early on there was this girl.' 
It was an old girlfriend. 
Q. Do you know where she is now? 
A. In New York. 
Q. Do you know her address? 
A. She is Uptown on the east side 
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EFTA00181556

Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
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M. Epstein 
somewhere. 
Q. Do you know any of his other adult 
girlfriends? 
A. No. No. 
Well, I don't know how to 
characterize. I know some females that he 
knew from years back but, you know, I'm not 
sure if they were girlfriends. I don't know 
what their relationship was. 
Q. Who are those people? 
A. Well, there was a (Glynn) Ghislaine 
Maxwell. 
Q. How do you know Ghislaine Maxwell? 
A. I met her through my brother. 
Q. How many times have you been around 
or hung out with Ghislaine Maxwell? 
A. Maybe a dozen or so, but we met 
when -- about the time -- my father and her 
father died about the same time. 
My father died in 1991, so in that 
period of time almost 20 years ago, I used to 
see her more frequently. 
Q. How frequently would you see her? 
A. Then? 
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Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
47 
M. Epstein 
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Q. Yes. 
A. Monthly. 
Q. Would it always be with your brother? 
A. Yes. 
Q. You met her through your brother? 
A. Yes. 
Q. What was your understanding of the 
relationship between Ghislaine Maxwell and 
your brother? 
A. Well, they were friends, and she 
worked for him. 
Q. Did she ever live with him? 
A. I don't know. I'm not sure. I think 
she always had her own place, so I don't know 
if she lived with him or not. 
Q. When you say that she worked for him, 
what did she do for him? 
A. I know she helped take care of the 
properties, like hiring the household help. 
Q. Did you ever hear that she helped to 
bring young girls to him for sex? 
A. I read that somewhere in one of the 
articles. 
Q. Is that something, knowing Ghislaine 
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EFTA00181558

Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
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M. Epstein 
Maxwell and knowing your brother, would that 
surprise you to hear that? 
MR. COHEN: Objection. 
A. I don't know Ghislaine Maxwell. I 
mean I know her, but you can tell me anything, 
it's not going to surprise me. 
Q. When you would see your brother and 
Ghislaine Maxwell, where would you be; at his 
house, at a function, out to dinner? 
A. Probably at his house more than 
anything. 
Q. Which house would that be? 
A. More likely Florida. 
Q. Do you know how he met her? 
A. No. 
Q. Do you know where she is now? 
A. No. 
Q. When is the last time you saw 
Ghislaine Maxwell? 
A. Probably around when my mother died, 
that's five and a half years ago. 
Q. Have you ever met Leslie Wexner? 
A. No. 
Q. Have you ever met Donald Trump? 
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Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
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M. Epstein 
A. Yes. 
Q. Was that through your brother? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Where was that? 
A. We flew up on my brother's plane from 
Florida together. Donald was on the plane. 
Q. When? 
A. Somewhere between 5 and 10 years ago. 
Q. Okay. So we are talking about --
A. It's either late '90's early 2000. 
Probably more like late '90's. 
Q. Was that the only time you've met 
Donald Trump? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Which plane was this of your 
brother's? 
A. I don't remember. 
Q. Was this one of the big planes, the 
727? 
A. No. It wasn't that one, no. 
Q. Okay. How many people were on this 
airplane? 
A. It was my brother, myself, Donald, 
the pilot the co-pilot. I don't remember -- I 
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•. 
AMit•SIte OalbCoePaT 
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Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
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M. Epstein 
don't remember if anybody else was on the 
plane. 
Q. What was the purpose of Donald Trump 
riding on your brother's airplane? 
A. You'll have to ask Donald. I think 
he wanted a ride back to New York. 
Q. What was your understanding of the 
relationship of Donald Trump and your brother? 
A. They were friends. 
Q. Do you know how they met? 
A. No. 
Q. When you say "friends," how 
frequently did they associate? 
A. I have no idea. 
Q. What was your understanding -- did 
you --
A. I had no understanding. They were 
friends. That was my understanding. 
Q. When they were in the airplane 
together, they talked as if they were friends? 
A. Yeah, I talked to him like he was my 
friend. I never met the guy. I am a friendly 
guy. 
Q. Were there girls on the plane? 
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Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
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M. Epstein 
A. I don't remember who was on the 
plane. I don't remember if anybody else was 
on the plane. 
Q. Do you know if the pilot was? 
A. Yeah. He had a pilot and a co-pilot 
for a long time. The co-pilot's name was 
Larry. And the pilot's name -- I have his 
picture in my face -- into my head, but I 
don't remember his name. 
Q. Larry Kisofsky. Does that sound --
A. I don't know his last name. His name 
is Larry. 
Q. Is that somebody that still works for 
him? 
A. I have no idea. 
Q. When did your brother get his first 
airplane? 
A. Probably around 1990. Somewhere 
around there, because he had it when my father 
was in the hospital in '91. 
Q. You remember that? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Was your father ever on his airplane? 
A. I don't remember. 
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Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
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M. Epstein 
Q. Okay. And how many times do you 
think that you've been on one of your 
brother's airplanes with your brother? 
A. Less than a dozen. 
Q. And any of the times that you were on 
the airplane, were there girls on the airplane 
with you? 
A. What do you mean girls? There were 
women on the plane. 
Q. Okay. Ever any under-age girls? 
A. I don't think so. 
Q. So they were young girls, you don't 
know if they were under-age? 
A. I'm not going to speculate on their 
ages. 
Q. Did you know these girls, or were 
these girls that were familiar with your 
brother? 
A. I didn't know them. I mean, unless 
it was Ghislaine or Eva years ago, but 
otherwise I didn't know them. 
Q. But the specific girls I'm talking 
about are the girls you are not going to 
speculate on their age. 
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Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
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M. Epstein 
Were these girls your brother had on 
the plane because he knew them or did you know 
them, I guess that's my question? 
A. It wasn't me, no. 
No, once I flew down to Florida on 
his plane and I had a girlfriend with me, one 
of my girlfriends at the time. 
Q. Did you ever know of any sex or sex 
acts to go on on the airplane with your 
brother? 
A. Not when I was there. 
Q. When you would fly on his airplane, 
would this be from New York to Florida or vice 
versa? 
A. Yeah. And then there were a couple 
of times that I flew to or flew back to 
Cleveland. My father was in a Cleveland 
clinic for a few months, so I flew on the 
plane then. 
Q. And do you know -- did you ever meet 
David Copperfield? 
A. No. 
Q. Did you ever meet Alan Dershowitz? 
A. I might have met him once. 
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Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
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M. Epstein 
Q. Where would that have been? 
A. In Florida. 
Q. What was the occasion? 
A. I went to Jeff's house for something, 
and I think Alan was there and I think he 
introduced us. 
Q. How long ago was that? 
A. A long time ago. 
Q. '90's? 
A. It would have to be. 
Q. Have you ever met Bill Clinton? 
A. Yes. 
Q. Through your brother? 
A. No. 
Q. Have you ever been with your brother 
at a time when Bill Clinton was also around? 
A. I don't understand your question. 
Q. Did you ever go to your brother's 
house when Bill Clinton was also there? 
A. No. 
Q. Have you ever been on your brother's 
airplane with Bill Clinton? 
A. No. 
Q. Have you ever known Bill Clinton to 
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Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
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M. Epstein 
fly on your brother's airplane? 
A. I read that he went to Africa on his 
plane. 
Q. Did you know of him to fly on your 
brother's airplane on any occasions other than 
when they went to Africa? 
A. No. 
Q. Have you ever met Kevin Spacey? 
A. No. 
Q. Chris Tucker? 
A. No. 
Q. Do you know what your brother's 
relationship is with Bill Clinton? 
A. He knew him, he flew him to Africa. 
I don't know how he met him. I don't know 
what their relationship is. 
Q. Other than the flight to Africa, has 
your brother ever talked to you about his 
relationship with Bill Clinton? 
A. He mentioned they were somewhere 
once, it might have been in Europe. And I 
think he mentioned something about Bill 
Clinton. I'm not sure, but I think there was 
someplace that he was and Clinton was there, 
• 
0 
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Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
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M. Epstein 
and he mentioned that he was there and Clinton 
was there, but... 
Q. Has he ever mentioned to you that he 
provided girls to Bill Clinton? 
A. No. 
Q. Have you ever met Prince Andrew? 
A. No. 
Q. Has your brother ever discussed his 
relationship with Prince Andrew? 
A. I know he knew him, or he saw him. 
That's all. 
Q. What is your understanding as to how 
your brother made his money? 
A. I don't have an understanding of it. 
Q. He's never talked to you about that? 
A. No. He is an investor. He invested 
things. As far as I know, he invested money. 
Q. Do you know who his clients are? 
A. Other than Wexner, no. 
Q. Do you believe he has any other 
clients other than Wexner? 
A. I have no idea. I never questioned 
it. 
Q. How do you know Wexner was his 
0 
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Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
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M. Epstein 
client? 
A. Wexner was his client really early 
on. He told me about it. 
Q. Was Wexner his only client that he 
ever talked about? 
A. Again, we don't talk business 
I 
didn't tell him about many of my clients 
either. 
Q. Is it your understanding that Leslie 
Wexner is no longer your brother's client? 
A. I have no idea. 
Q. Do you know how your brother's 
business is doing now? 
A. I have no idea. 
Q. When you call Florida to make sure he 
is doing all right, isn't one of the main 
things your brother does is business; and 
aren't you asking essentially, is your 
business doing all right? 
A. No, I'm asking him how his health is. 
Q. So he responds that his health is 
fine, and that's basically the end of the 
telephone call? 
A. Yeah, or we'll tell each other a 
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Mark Epstein 
September 21, 2009 
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M. Epstein 
funny story about something, about some 
friends or whatever. 
Q. Do you know who his closest friends 
are these days? 
A. No. 
Q. Do you know of any friends of your 
brother's who are not also on your brother's 
payroll? 
A. I don't know his friends. 
Q. Do you know who his assistants are 
these days? 
A. No. 
Q. Is 
, does she still work 
for him? 
A. I have no idea. 
Q. When is the last time you saw 
A. I don't think I saw 
. If 
I met her, it was a few years ago. 
Q. Where would that have been? 
A. Maybe 301. 
Q. And how many occasions have you ever 
seen 
A. Once or twice. I once saw her in the 
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