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BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
Okay. Do you know what his relationship was 
with Jeffrey Epstein? 
A. 
No. 
Q. 
Do you know if they were friends? 
A. 
Assuming. 
Q. 
But you're assuming why? 
Just because he's on 
his plane? 
A. 
Yeah. 
Q. 
Okay. So you assume that the people that are 
listed on here are friends of Jeffrey Epstein's and 
that's why they are riding on his plane? 
A. 
I'm speculating. 
Q. 
I'm just not familiar with the -- because I've 
never been on a private flight -- with the manner in 
which you go about getting on one of these flights. 
I 
mean, you have to, I guess, know that Jeffrey Epstein 
has a plane, that it's going from a destination that you 
are at and want to go to, and that it's available and 
those kind of things. Can you tell me, enlighten me --
A. 
Well, it's not publicly offered, no. 
It would 
be no different than you jumping in your car and knowing 
you're going to the mall. 
I mean, it's not public 
information, you know, where planes are coming to and 
from, and you don't put your name out there to get 
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onboard a flight. 
Q. 
Does Jeffrey Epstein charge these people as 
passengers? 
A. 
I don't know. 
Q. 
Okay. 
Are these people such as Bill Clinton, 
does that mean that Bill Clinton called 
or 
somebody affiliated with Jeffrey Epstein to get on the 
plane or that Jeffrey Epstein called Bill Clinton and 
asked do you want a ride? 
MR. CRITTON: Form; predicate. 
THE WITNESS: 
I have no idea. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
No idea? 
A. 
No idea whatsoever. 
Q. 
Joe Pagano, do you know who that is? 
A. 
Yes. 
Q. 
What's his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, 
or what was it back in February -- sorry, March 17th of 
2002, when he and 
and Jeffrey Epstein and 
Todd and one female were on this flight? 
A. 
I don't know to what extent or what his 
relationship is. 
He just was a passenger on the 
airplane. 
Q. 
Okay. 
And the next day -- sorry, two days 
later on the 19th of March, Bill Clinton flies again, 
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this time with Doug Band, three Secret Service agents, 
Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell and 
. 
Do 
3 
you remember that flight? 
4 
A. 
Where did we go? 
5 
0. 
Starts in JFK. 
6 
A. 
Right. 
7 
Q. 
Where is that? 
8 
MR. CRITTON: 
Do you have a date? 
9 
MR. EDWARDS: 
March 19th, 2002. 
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THE WITNESS: 
EGGW I believe is Luton, 
11 
England. 
12 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
13 
Q. 
Okay. 
Do you remember flying to England? 
14 
A. 
I do remember flying to England. 
I just don't 
15 
remember that trip. 
What airplane were we in? 
We were 
16 
in the Boeing. 
17 
Q. 
Do you remember the purpose of the trip? 
18 
A. 
No. 
19 
Q. 
Do you know who Doug Band is? 
20 
A. 
I heard he's Clinton's, how would you say, 
21 
assistant. 
I mean, I've seen that in the newspaper, 
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seen it on CNN. 
23 
Q. 
Okay. 
Did you ever hear that Doug Band and 
24 
Ghislaine Maxwell were together, even for a day or a 
25 
night? 
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A. 
No. 
Q. 
Did you ever hear that Doug Band and Ghislaine 
Maxwell were the people attributed to introducing Bill 
Clinton and Jeffrey Epstein? 
MR. CRITTON: 
Form. 
THE WITNESS: 
I don't know. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
All right. 
There's another flight here on 
January -- I can't read this upside down. 
Maybe it says 
May 
A. 
Looks like. 
Q. 
22nd, 2002. 
Again, with President Bill 
Clinton, 
Can you tell me who 
and 
are? 
A. 
I don't remember. 
Q. 
Would you know them if you saw them? 
A. 
Probably not because the names don't even ring 
a bell. 
Q. 
All right. 
And then there are plenty of 
flights, many of flights where Jeffrey Epstein, 
Ghislaine Maxwell and 
are the primary 
passengers, or at least are some of the passengers on 
the flights, correct? 
A. 
Mm-hmm, yes. 
Q. 
And still, as you sit here, you being the 
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pilot of these flights, you're not sure what their 
relationship is or whether any of them were socially 
connected in any real way? 
MR. CRITTON: Form. 
THE WITNESS: 
No. 
When you're flying the 
airplane, there's a lot more going on than 
passengers' relations. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q • 
All right. 
You remember this person, 
, are you familiar with her at all? 
A. 
I remember the name, that's it. 
Q. 
What do you think her relationship is to 
Jeffrey Epstein? 
A. 
No idea. 
MR. CRITTON: What date are you on, Brad? 
MR. EDWARDS: Oh, sorry. 
I am at June 21st, 
2002. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
That's not somebody that you specifically 
remember? 
A. 
Mm-mm, no. 
Q. 
No? Is that somebody that you think was a 
regular flyer for any period of time in Jeffrey 
Epstein's life? 
A. 
Not a regular. 
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Q. 
Okay. 
Jean Luc Brunel, is that a name that 
you know? 
A. 
Yes. 
Q. 
How do you know that name? 
A. 
Only because it's a unique name and his attire 
is very unique. So you remember certain things. So I 
know he who that is. 
Q. 
Do you know what he does? 
A. 
No. 
Q. 
Do you know his association with Jeffrey 
Epstein, if any? 
A. 
No, I don't know what the relationship is. 
Q. 
Have you ever heard of him owning or running 
or managing a modeling company? 
A. 
I have seen that in the paper a few years 
back. 
Q. 
Okay. Other than seeing it in the paper, have 
you ever talked to Jean Luc Brunel or Jeffrey Epstein 
about owning or running or managing a modeling company? 
A. 
No. 
Q. 
Do you know if Jeffrey Epstein's affiliated 
with the modeling company that's owned, run or managed 
by Jean Luc Brunel? 
A. 
No, I have no idea. 
Q. 
And seeing that this is a flight now, that 
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we're referring to the same flight on June 21st of 2002, 
that includes Jean Luc Brunel, 
, Jeffrey 
Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, -• 
those are the 
passengers of this flight, does that serve to jog your 
memory as to who 
is? 
A. 
No. 
I mean, you see how frequently we fly. 
I 
mean, it's -- the passengers in the back are so far 
removed from an operation of commanding an airplane like 
that, it's nothing that sticks in your head. 
Q. 
And you as the pilot, is there any way that 
you would know what's going on in the back of the 
airplane? 
A. 
No. 
My concerns are all on the cockpit. 
MR. CRITTON: Brad, the last one that you 
mentioned, was that the same date, June 21st, '02? 
MR. EDWARDS: 
Yes. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
There's another name here that I was going to 
ask you do you know. 
June 23rd, 2002, 
are you familiar with that name? 
A. 
No. 
Q. 
Also on the same flight with Jean Luc Brunel. 
That doesn't help to jog your memory either, right? 
A. 
No. 
Q. 
That's somebody that you remember as a 
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frequent passenger? 
A. 
Who are you referring to? 
Q. 
A. 
No. 
Q. 
Dr. Jarecki, is that somebody that you 
remember flying? 
A. 
I know the name. 
He may have been on the 
airplane once or twice. 
I'm guessing only. 
Q. 
Do you remember meeting him? 
A. 
Yes, I have met him. 
Q. 
Do you remember his purpose for being on the 
airplane? 
A. 
No, sir. 
Q. 
Amanda Venaro, do you remember her purpose for 
being on the airplane? 
A. 
No. 
MR. REINHART: Can we get a date? 
MR. EDWARDS: 
I was asking him if he 
remembered Amanda Venaro. 
I wasn't referring to a 
specific flight. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
You don't remember her being on the flight? 
A. 
I don't remember the name. 
Q. 
Me showing you the flight isn't going to jog 
the memory? 
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A. 
No. The name that would launch it first --
MR. CRITTON: Could I ask you a question? 
You 
have the original exhibit marked at the deposition. 
It looks like it's been highlighted. 
MR. EDWARDS: 
I highlighted it. 
MR. CRITTON: Oh, okay. 
So you've highlighted 
the original exhibit that's marked for the 
deposition? 
I just want the record to reflect 
that. 
MR. EDWARDS: 
Yeah. 
MR. CRITTON: Okay. Thank you. 
MR. EDWARDS: At the time I highlighted it I 
didn't realize I was holding on to the original 
exhibit. 
I didn't realize that until you just 
pointed that out. 
MR. CRITTON: I've noticed that. 
MR. EDWARDS: So now when I give it to you, 
I'm giving you my work product as well. 
I don't 
see how this works against you, but anyway. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
Melissa Stall, is that a name that you 
remember? 
A. 
No. 
Q. 
Okay. 
And then Jean Luc Brunel is somebody 
who I noticed flew relatively frequently, so is that why 
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you -- that name jogs your memory a little better than 
some of these other people? 
A. 
He dresses uniquely. 
Q. 
In what way? 
A. 
Just loud clothes, so something that you would 
remember, that's all. 
Q. 
Do you know his role in Jeffrey's life? 
A. 
No. 
Q. 
Ever heard that he is affiliated with Jeffrey 
Epstein because they both have a sexual attraction to 
underage girls? 
MR. CRITTON: Form. 
THE WITNESS: 
You're making an assumption on 
that. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
Have you ever heard that? 
MR. REINHART: 
He's asked you if you ever 
heard that. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
If your answer is no, it's no. 
A. 
I'm sorry, I thought you said they did. No, I 
have not. 
Q. 
Okay. 
I keep highlighting this name, 
, just because it looks like somebody that's 
regularly flying on the airplane. But the more that you 
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see her name, that doesn't change your opinion as to 
whether or not you remember her or what --
A. 
I remember the name, you know, that's all. 
Q. 
Do you remember about what age she was when 
she was flying on the airplane? 
A. 
No. 
Q. 
This could be somebody who is 50 years old or 
ten years old, for all you know? 
MR. CRITTON: Form. 
THE WITNESS: Yes. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
Okay. 
A. 
I mean, I would only be guessing at an age. 
Q. 
Yeah, but I mean, you don't remember her at 
all. So you don't --
A. 
I remember the name, exactly. 
Q. 
Other than the name? 
A. 
Right, yes, sir. 
Q. 
But you can't even come close to putting a 
face with that name? 
A. 
I mean, no. 
I mean, if you said draw her 
picture with -- I couldn't come close to even getting 
it. 
Q. 
Okay. 
You remember this flight where 
President Clinton, Kevin Spacey and Chris Tucker, 
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Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell? 
A. 
Yes. 
Q. 
From JFK to what is this, LPAZ? 
A. 
LPAZ, that is --
Q • 
South Africa or something? 
92 
A. 
No, it's the Azores Islands, Santa Maria. 
Q. 
Do you know the purpose of that trip? 
A. 
That was a fuel stop. 
Q. 
Okay. 
And do you know why Chris Tucker and 
Kevin Spacey were on that airplane? 
A. 
No. 
Q. 
Did you talk to them? 
A. 
They came up in the cockpit and said hello. 
So they conversed, nothing more. 
Q. 
Another name that is on here a few times, I'm 
specifically referring right now to the dates of 
September 23rd and 24th of 2002, is Ron Burkle. 
Do you 
<now who that is, Ron Burkle? 
A. 
I know what that is, yes. 
I didn't realize he 
was on our airplane. 
Q. 
Right now that is the first time that you 
remember Ron Burkle being on your airplane? 
A. 
Yeah. 
Q. 
You don't know the purpose for him being on 
that airplane? 
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A. 
No. Granted, I'm seeing this for the first 
time, so I'm trying to --
Q. 
Let me ask you that. Because this was given 
to me at a deposition of Dave Rogers, who I understand 
was the chief pilot for Mr. Epstein, and now you're the 
cheap pilot, but you always kind of worked in tandem, 
correct? 
A. 
Sure; we complemented each other. 
Q. 
And you both worked for the same company that 
93 
flies Jeffrey Epstein's airplanes, right? 
A. 
Yes. 
Q. 
So I was of the presumption, which may have 
been -- I may have been misled here, or I may have, you 
know, misunderstood the purpose behind this book or how 
it was created. 
I thought that you had probably seen 
this before at some point in time? 
A. 
Oh, no. 
Q. 
Did you know that Dave Rogers was keeping this 
book? 
A. 
No. 
I know he keeps a pilot log book. 
Q. 
Okay. But you didn't know he was keeping the 
names of the people who were on the airplane? 
A. 
No. It's not required, so I mean, it's.. . 
Q. 
So today is the first time that you are 
learning that the names of the people that are on the 
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airplane was kept by Dave Rogers? 
A. 
Yes, in his log book. 
Q. 
Okay. 
And it's my understanding when you fly 
back into the country through Customs, you have to 
report the people that are on the airplane, right? 
A. 
Yes. 
Q. 
And who would create that document or call 
that information into Customs? 
A. 
Whoever the captain was for the day. 
Q. 
At times would that be you? 
A. 
Yes. 
Q. 
Okay. 
And at times when you would come into 
the country with passengers -- well, not at times. 
Didn't you also have to report their date of birth? 
A. 
Sure. 
Q. 
At times weren't there also people that you 
would bring in from other countries into the United 
States that were under the age of 18? 
A. 
Yes. 
Q. 
And at some times those were flights that 
included Jean Luc Brunel and girls that were under the 
age of 18, right? 
MR. CRITTON: Form. 
THE WITNESS: 
I don't remember those flights. 
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BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
Okay. 
You don't remember which flights it 
would have been where there would have been girls under 
the age of 18? 
MR. CRITTON: Form. 
THE WITNESS: 
Well, I would have to look at 
the flight logs. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
It's not illegal to have somebody under the 
age of 18 on a flight anyway, right? 
A. 
No, not at all. 
Q. 
Were you ever aware that you, as pilot, were 
transporting girls under the age of 18 who were supposed 
to be models? 
MR. CRITTON: Form. 
THE WITNESS: 
I had no knowledge. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
Okay. 
You never knew who the people on the 
airplane were, what their purpose was, their role with 
Jeffrey 
A. 
Q. 
A. 
Q. 
A. 
Epstein or Jean Luc Brunel? 
No. 
All right. 
Do you know 
No, I don't remember that name. 
I remember the name. 
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Q. 
She flew frequently at least for a period of 
time. Do you remember that? 
A. 
Yes. 
Q. 
Is that somebody that you thought was familiar 
with the modeling industry or related to the modeling 
industry? 
A. 
No. 
Q. 
Okay. 
And these people, did Jeffrey Epstein 
ever tell you how he was associated with any of them? 
A. 
No. 
Q. 
Did you ever wonder how he was associated with 
any of them? 
A. 
No, never interested. 
Q. 
And on several of these -- on most of these, 
the names or initials of the people that are on the 
flight are listed. Do you know on the occasions where 
it lists generically two females or three females or six 
females, do you know why that was done? 
A. 
Just because we didn't know our -- the 
person's name. 
We tried to do the best we could to keep 
the records. 
Q. 
When you say "we tried to do the best that we 
could" --
A. 
Dave and I. 
Q. 
Okay. But the first time that you learned 
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that he kept anybody's names was today, right? 
A. 
Well, I didn't know he kept them in his log 
book. 
We would fill out the passenger manifest as 
we're -- having passengers' names in your pilot log 
book, he's probably the only person in the world that 
does that. 
Q. 
Okay. 
A. 
So when you were mentioning putting the names 
down, when you said female or male, you know, I was 
referring to the passenger manifest. 
Q. 
For each of these same flights, then, that 
we're referring to out of this log book that was marked 
as Composite Exhibit 1 in Dave Rogers' deposition, am I 
understanding you correctly, then, there would also be a 
passenger manifest for each of these flights? 
A. 
Yes. 
Q. 
Now, where would I find the passenger 
manifest? 
Who keeps that documentation? 
A. 
Corporate -- our corporate office. 
Q. 
Which is whom? 
A. 
Up in New York, Darren Indyke. 
Q. 
At what corporation is that, though? 
A. 
NES, LLC, I guess. 
MR. REINHART: Do you know for sure? 
THE WITNESS: 
I don't know for sure. 
I mean, 
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when you say -- we would just send them up to New 
York. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
Did you ever keep a copy of them? 
A. 
No. 
Q. 
Why did you keep a passenger manifest? 
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A. 
Just for tracking of -- to have the times on 
there for --
MR. REINHART: 
Can I confer with him on one 
thing before you ask a question? 
MR. EDWARDS: 
Yeah, yeah. 
(Off the record discussion.) 
MR. REINHART: 
Mr. Edwards, let him amend his 
prior answer. 
I think he misunderstood the 
question. 
MR. EDWARDS: 
I don't know what question we're 
amounting the answer to. 
MR. REINHART: 
Let me clarify this way: 
As 
the passenger manifests, they are corporate 
documents of either JEGE or Hyperion Air, whatever 
company owns the plane. 
Mr. Visoski has physical 
custody of them. 
He retains them but they're not 
his documents. 
They're the corporate documents. 
So they're not in New York. 
THE WITNESS: 
Those are the ones that I have 
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October 15, 2009 
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at the airport office that I had turned into 
counsel that has the passenger names on them. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
Okay. 
A. 
It's called a passenger manifest. 
Q. 
Okay. 
MR. REINHART: Right. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
The passenger manifest, just so I understand 
exactly what that is, tell me. 
Tell me in your own 
words. 
A. 
It's departure time, the city, the landing 
time exactly and the passengers that would have been on 
that flight. 
Q. 
And at times on that passenger manifest would 
you list also generically female or male? 
A. 
Yes. That was the document I was referring to 
stating that if we didn't know a person, we did not go 
out of our way to find out a name. 
We just put in to 
account for how many people were on the aircraft at that 
time. 
Q. 
Who is currently in the custody or control --
sorry. Who currently maintains or has possession of the 
passenger manifest from 1998 through the present, 
through today for those airplanes that you flew related 
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Larry Visoski 
October 15, 2009 
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to Jeffrey Epstein? 
A. 
I currently have, which counsel has now, 2005, 
I believe, until the present time. And the records 
previous to that I believe were turned into counsel with 
the previous investigation with Jack Goldberger's 
office, I believe. 
I believe they maintain those 
records. 
Q. 
When you say "turned into counsel," there are 
a lot of counsel involved here. 
A. 
Jack Goldberger's office, I believe. 
Q. 
When you say "the previous investigation," 
you're talking about the criminal investigation? 
A. 
Exactly, yes, sir. 
Q. 
And you're aware in that criminal 
investigation, obviously, that Jeffrey Epstein pled 
guilty to certain charges, correct? 
A. 
From what I read, yes. 
Q. 
Well, you did visit him in jail, right? 
A. 
Yes. 
We didn't talk about that. 
Q. 
Okay. 
You know in order to go to jail, 
though, you have to be convicted of some crime, right? 
MR. CRITTON: Form; argumentative. 
THE WITNESS: 
Yes. 
BY MR. EDWARDS: 
Q. 
It wasn't like he was visiting the jail and 
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