EFTA00079704

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK 
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, 
v. 
JEFFREY EPSTEIN, 
Defendant. 
Before: 
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New York, N.Y. 
19 Cr. 490(RMB) 
Conference 
July 8, 2019 
1:20 p.m. 
HON. HENRY B. PITMAN, 
APPEARANCES 
GEOFFREY S. BERMAN 
United States Attorney for the 
Southern District of New York 
BY: 
Assistant United States Attorneys 
STEPTOE & JOHNSON, LLP 
Attorneys for Defendant 
BY: REID H. WEINGARTEN 
MARTIN G. WEINBERG 
Attorney for Defendant 
MARC FERNICH 
Attorney for Defendant 
Also Present: 
Special Agent 
Detective 
FBI 
, NYPD 
Magistrate Judge 
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. 
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(Case called) 
THE DEPUTY CLERK: Counsel, please state your name for 
the record. 
MR. 
: Good afternoon, your Honor. For the 
government, 
, and 
With us are Special Agent 
of the F.B.I. and 
Detective 
, NYPD task force officer. 
THE COURT: Okay. 
MR. WEINGARTEN: Good afternoon, your Honor. For 
Jeffrey Epstein, Reid Weingarten from the law firm of Steptoe & 
Johnson. 
MR. WEINBERG: Good afternoon, your Honor. Martin 
Weinberg. I'm an attorney from Boston, Massachusetts; and, 
with your Honor's permission, I will be filing a pro hac vice 
to represent Mr. Epstein. 
THE COURT: Okay. 
MR. FERNICH: Good afternoon, your Honor. Marc 
Fernich, New York, New York, also for Mr. Epstein. 
THE COURT: All right. I have spoken to Judge Berman. 
The matter has been referred to me for the initial appearance, 
arraignment, and bail. 
Mr. Epstein, my name is Magistrate Judge Pitman. The 
purpose of this proceeding is to inform you of certain rights 
that you have, to inform you of the charges against you, to 
consider whether counsel should be appointed for you, and to 
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. 
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decide under what conditions, if any, you should be released. 
Can I have the date and time of arrest, please? 
MR. 
: Yes, your Honor. The defendant was 
arrested on Saturday, July 6, at approximately 5:30 p.m. 
THE COURT: Thank you. 
Mr. Epstein, you have the right to remain silent. You 
are not required to make any statements. Even if you have made 
any statements to the authorities, you need not make any 
further statements. Anything you do say can be used against 
you. 
You have the right to be released, either 
conditionally or unconditionally, pending trial unless I find 
that there are no conditions or combination of conditions that 
would reasonably assure your presence in court and the safety 
of the community. 
You have the right to be represented by counsel during 
all court proceedings, including this one, and during all 
questioning by the authorities. If you cannot afford an 
attorney, I will appoint one to represent you. 
It is my understanding that you are being represented 
by retained counsel. I want to advise you that the right to 
the appointment of counsel is an ongoing right that you possess 
throughout these proceedings. If at any time you are unable to 
continue with retained counsel for financial reasons, you can 
apply to the court at any time for the appointment of counsel. 
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. 
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Do you understand that? 
THE DEFENDANT: Yes, your Honor. 
THE COURT: Mr. Epstein, you are charged in an 
indictment in two counts. 
Count One charges you with a sex trafficking 
conspiracy in violation of Title 18 United States Code § 371. 
Count Two charges with you with the substantive 
offense of sex trafficking in violation of Title 18 United 
States Code § 1591. 
Mr. Weingarten, are you going to be lead counsel here 
today? 
MR. WEINGARTEN: Yes, your Honor. 
THE COURT: Mr. Weingarten, have you received a copy 
of the indictment? 
MR. WEINGARTEN: Yes, your Honor. 
THE COURT: Have you reviewed it with your client? 
MR. WEINGARTEN: Yes, your Honor. 
THE COURT: Do you waive its reading? 
MR. WEINGARTEN: Yes, your Honor. 
THE COURT: Mr. Epstein, how do you plead? 
THE DEFENDANT: Not guilty, your Honor. 
THE COURT: Because the defendant has been indicted, 
there will be no preliminary hearing, and that takes us to the 
question of bail. In that regard, I have received the Pretrial 
Services report. I have also received a letter from the 
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government dated July 8, 2019. 
I take it all counsel have the same documents? 
MR. WEINGARTEN: Yes, your Honor. 
THE COURT: I will hear from the government first, and 
then I will hear from defense counsel. 
MR. 
: Yes, your Honor. 
The government intends to seek detention, and I am 
happy to explain the reasons why. Would the court prefer that 
i speak from the table or from the podium? 
THE COURT: Whatever your pleasure is. 
MR. 
: Your Honor, the defendant poses an 
extraordinary risk of flight and danger presented by him. 
Given the charges and the characteristics of the defendant, he 
simply cannot reasonably be expected to appear in court if he 
is granted bail. Accordingly, the government joins the 
recommendation of Pretrial Services that the defendant be 
detained pending trial for a number of reasons. 
Starting with the conduct alleged, the defendant is 
charged with trafficking minors for sex acts, as the court 
explained, in violation of 18 United States Code E. 591, and is 
charged with a count of conspiracy to traffic minors for sex 
acts in violation of 18 U.S.C. 371. 
In particular, the indictment charges that the 
defendant engaged in a years-long scheme to sexually abuse 
underage girls, paying minor girls to themselves be abused, and 
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also paying certain victims to recruit other girls to be 
subject to the defendant's sexual abuse. 
The indictment alleges that the defendant undertook 
this conduct at at least two locations, including his mansion 
in Manhattan and his estate in Palm Beach, Florida. In both 
locations, victims were initially recruited to provide massages 
to the defendant, which would be performed nude or partially 
nude, would become increasingly sexual in nature, and would 
typically include one or more sex acts, including contact with 
the victims' genitals. These victims, who were often 
particularly vulnerable, were as young as 14, and the defendant 
knew he was abusing underage girls. The indictment further 
alleges that the defendant perpetrated these crimes by working 
with others, including employees and associates who facilitated 
these abusive encounters. 
Regarding the defendant himself, your Honor, he is 
extraordinarily wealthy, mobile, and unattached to the Southern 
District of New York. He maintains at least six residences in 
the United States and abroad, including the ownership of a 
private island in the U.S. Virgin Islands and a residence in 
Paris, France. Among other things, the defendant owns two 
private jets and routinely uses them to travel abroad. He is a 
man of nearly infinite means, your Honor; and, as set forth in 
our submission, he has tremendous incentives to use those means 
to flee prosecution. 
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. 
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The government notes as an initial matter that this is 
a presumption case because sex trafficking is charged; and, 
moreover, each of the four factors to be considered in the 
detention analysis strongly militates towards pretrial 
detention. 
So starting with the nature and seriousness of the 
offense, as previously discussed, the nature and circumstances 
of the crime are the most serious crime that this court sees. 
The defendant is alleged to have spent years sexually abusing 
minors in multiple locations and with dozens of victims. 
The seriousness of the charge is also reflected in the 
potential penalties, which include up to 45 combined years of 
incarceration on Counts One and Two, and the likelihood of a 
substantial period of incarceration is supported by the fact 
that the government's evidence is strong. There are multiple 
individual identified victims in the indictment, numerous 
specified overt acts, and dozens of overall victims alleged. 
In order to protect the privacy of the victims, your 
Honor, I'm not going to go into detail about particular 
victims, but we can say that information provided by victims 
has been detailed, it has been credible, and it has been 
corroborated by other witnesses and contemporaneous documents 
and records, including from a recent search of the defendant's 
Manhattan mansion, as I will discuss further in a moment. 
Separately, your Honor, in just the last 36 hours, 
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that is, post charge, we have been contacted by multiple 
attorneys and several additional individuals who have 
identified themselves as victims and are interested in speaking 
with the government, none of whom the government has previously 
spoken with. 
Your Honor, the defendant is 66 years old. He is 
charged with appalling crimes, and those charges are supported 
by significant evidence, including victim and witness testimony 
and damning record evidence. He faces the very real prospect 
of spending the rest of his life in prison. He has every 
motivation in the world to flee, and he has the means to do it. 
And I will note for the court that this is a case 
where the government has really put its money where its mouth 
is on the risk of flight. This district took extraordinary 
efforts to maintain the covert status of its investigation for 
many months due to the risk of flight of the defendant -- not a 
single media report, not a single public statement, no appeals 
for victims to come forward because of precisely the flight 
risks we are discussing now. 
Turning to the characteristics of the defendant, your 
Honor, some individuals who face significant charges lack the 
means to flee. Not this defendant. As set forth in the 
government's submission, in the defendant's most recent sex 
offender registration, he lists six residences worth tens or 
hundreds of millions of dollars, including a residence abroad. 
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. 
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The defendant has refused to answer any questions 
about his income or assets for the Pretrial Services report, so 
the scope of his wealth and his assets remains entirely 
concealed to the government and to the court. But the 
defendant certainly has access to endless means to flee, 
including two private jets. He has no meaningful family ties, 
and any argument that his properties would keep him in the 
United States ignores his ability to simply leave those 
properties behind in favor of moving beyond the reach of U.S. 
authorities to live off his extensive wealth abroad, extensive 
wealth, I should add, that the court doesn't even have any 
accounting of. He travels abroad extensively, has a residence 
in France, and all of those factors further contribute to the 
risk of flight. 
With respect to danger and obstruction, again, this is 
a presumption case, and not only is the defendant charged with 
the sexual abuse of minors, he has previously pled guilty to 
solicitation of an underage girl. This court knows that 
defendants are routinely detained in this district when facing 
such charges and that this is not an unusual position for the 
government to take. 
It is further concerning that there are credible 
allegations from the prior investigation that the defendant or 
his agents engaged in witness tampering and harassment, and in 
fact there is evidence that he was contemplating pleading 
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guilty to that kind of offense in Florida. Those allegations 
include verbal harassment, evasion of legal process, and 
forcing off the road the father of an individual relevant to 
that investigation. 
THE COURT: Can you elaborate on that last point about 
forcing somebody off the road? 
MR. 
: Your Honor, what we have is the 
record evidence from an underlying civil dispute in Florida 
that discusses this incident and discusses it in the context of 
a potential plea of the defendant to obstruction or harassment 
charges. The government sets before this court that if the 
defendant was willing to undertake such measure simply as a 
result of an investigation, the potential for dangerous and 
obstructive activity in an indicted case is alarming and very 
real. 
Despite having been previously convicted of a sex 
offense involving an underage victim and being a registered sex 
offender, the defendant has continued to maintain a vast trove 
of lewd photography of young-looking women or girls at his 
mansion. Your Honor, pursuant to judicially authorized 
warrants, law enforcement agents searched his home on Saturday 
and found at least hundreds, and perhaps thousands, of sexually 
suggestive photographs of nude females, many of whom appear to 
be underage. 
I also want to note that the search revealed specific 
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evidence from his home consistent with victim accounts. Ever 
the room where the abuse occurred, your Honor, the massage 
room, was still set up in the same way it was 15 years ago, 
with a massage table and sex paraphernalia. 
And with respect to the photographs 
THE COURT: When you say the evidence was consistent 
with victim accounts, is it limited to the massage table and 
massage room or is there something else? 
MR. 
: Descriptions of the massage room and 
the massage table, that's correct, your Honor. 
THE COURT: Okay. All right. 
MR. 
: With respect to the photographs, your 
Honor, some of those were found in a locked safe which also 
held electronic disks with labels that included the words 
"Young Miscellaneous Nudes 1" and "Girl Pics Nude." 
Your Honor, this is not an individual who has left his 
past behind. He is a continuing danger to the community and an 
extraordinary risk of flight and, for those reasons, the 
government joins the pretrial recommendation that the defendant 
be detained pending trial. 
THE COURT: All right. Thank you. 
Mr. Weingarten. 
MR. WEINGARTEN: Thank you, your Honor. I will use 
the podium, if that's okay. 
THE COURT: That's fine. 
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MR. WEINGARTEN: So your Honor, I would like to start 
by providing some context, and then I'm going to make a 
suggestion as to how we proceed. 
The beginning here is 2005 in Florida. That's when an 
allegation was received by the local police that Mr. Epstein 
was engaged in sexual conduct for money, prostitution. 
Thereafter, there was a very sophisticated three-year 
investigation by law enforcement, including locals and feds, 
into Mr. Epstein's conduct. Numerous girls were interviewed, 
employees were interviewed, and it is fair to say that a 
significant segment of the law enforcement community in Florida 
thought what we had in hand was simple prostitution. There was 
no coercion. There were no threats. There was no violence. 
And it is also fair to say that a significant portion of the 
law enforcement community in Florida believed that a local 
misdemeanor was the appropriate sanction. 
Now, it is also --
THE COURT: Did you represent Mr. Epstein in the 
Florida investigation? 
MR. WEINGARTEN: No, but I'm familiar with the 
records. 
THE COURT: All right. 
MR. WEINGARTEN: It is also true that there was a 
contrary view largely taken by the feds, and what ensued was a 
complex set of discussions and negotiations and finally an 
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agreement, an agreement that was consummated and agreed to all 
the way up to main justice at a very, very high level. 
The agreement involved a plea in state court to 
soliciting an underaged girl, which would require registration, 
compensation paid to alleged victims, and an NPA from the feds, 
in other words, a declination by the federal government, an 
agreement that was approved all the way up in main justice and 
it sure seemed like a global solution at the time to everyone 
involved, including my client. 
What happened since then? Mr. Epstein continued a 
life of success, generosity, creativity and, more important, a 
law-abiding life from 2008 forward. How do we know? Because 
when you are in registration the way he is, every single night 
his whereabouts are known. There is constant reporting, 
constant monitoring, and absolutely, to our knowledge, no 
complaints by anybody from that moment forward about his 
conduct until we have arrived in court here. 
Now, what has happened in court from that moment? 
There have been lawsuits, many of them ludicrous, dismissed out 
of hand. But when something like this happens, a lot of stuff 
comes out of the woodwork, and there were lawsuits that 
Mr. Epstein settled also in the normal course. 
There was one particular litigation that leads to this 
occasion, and that is, under the Crime Victims Rights Act, that 
act simply says that victims have a right to be consulted by 
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the United States, and there are alleged victims in this case 
who complain that they were not, and there has been extensive 
litigation in the Southern District of Florida before 
Judge Marra on that very subject. In fact, the judge concluded 
that the prosecutors from the Southern District of Florida did 
not adequately notify some of the victims about the ongoing 
discussions and the consummation of the deal and, in 
particular, the NPA. The United States took the position that 
they had no responsibility to do so, that they had treated the 
victims properly, and that matter continues to this day. 
The consequences of that matter are overwhelming, 
because the judge suggested, I think three times, that the NPA, 
the declination, could be voided. And we think about that for 
a second. So a defendant negotiates what he thinks is a global 
solution with the feds. He does his time --
THE COURT: Does the nonprosecution agreement in 
Florida -- the nonprosecution agreements in the Southern 
District routinely say they are limited to the Southern 
District of New York. 
MR. WEINGARTEN: Obviously --
THE COURT: Is there a similar provision in the 
Florida agreement? 
MR. WEINGARTEN: I don't want to misstate. It is not 
before me. It is obviously going to be an important part of 
the pretrial motions. What is for sure is that there was - 
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the negotiation with the Southern District included 
negotiations with main justice. What's also true is the 
investigation extended into the Southern District of New York 
and elsewhere in terms of girls being interviewed. 
So obviously your question is relevant and will be 
part of the pretrial litigation for sure. But what matters 
here and for now is there certainly was a belief that there was 
a global solution based upon the facts on the ground. 
THE COURT: Have you seen the Florida nonprosecution 
agreement? 
MR. WEINGARTEN: Yes. 
THE COURT: And --
MR. WEINGARTEN: I don't have it before me. I don't 
want to make a specific representation and not be completely 
accurate. 
THE COURT: Okay. All right. Go ahead. 
MR. WEINGARTEN: The consequences of this are huge in 
that if in fact there is a negotiation with a defendant, the 
defendant does his time, the defendant pays his victim, and the 
defendant spends ten years on the registration list and 
prosecutors don't adequately notify the victims, how in the 
world can that deal be undone? Every prosecutor in the world 
has to oppose that possibility. No defense attorney in their 
right mind would negotiate a deal with that potential 
consequence. 
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So this is a huge problem for the department and what 
solution ensues, and I suggest the solution that ensued is this 
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indictment. To 
The allegations 
This is ancient 
investigated by 
investigation. 
us, this indictment is essentially a do-over. 
are from 2002 to 2005. This is old stuff. 
stuff. This is the very stuff that was 
the feds in Florida, a sophisticated three-year 
Two of the alleged victims in this indictment 
are from Florida. The indictment here tracks the conduct that 
was investigated in Florida back before the agreement was 
reached. Obviously we need to get discovery to find out just 
how inextricably linked the investigation back in Florida is 
with what's going on here. We do know we are talking about 
ancient conduct. We do know we are talking about facts that 
are from 2002 to 2005, facts that were known to the United 
States prosecutors before they entered into the NPA, the 
declination. This is essentially a redo. That's how it feels 
to us. And if we are correct, that should chill the blood of 
every defense attorney who negotiates a deal with the United 
States. 
In addition, we have 
the central allegation here is 
trafficking, and obviously it is useful and relevant to make 
inquiry as to why the trafficking law was passed. It is to 
cover abhorrent conduct, where 
are fooled, they are forced to 
places, work in brothels where 
young girls are kidnapped, they 
come usually to unfamiliar 
they service 15, 20 guys in a 
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day. They can't leave or else their families are threatened. 
This is dreadful conduct. 
I remember an occasion when the Attorney General Eric 
Holder and I think Director Comey had a press conference 
establishing this as a law enforcement priority. Every 
sensible person in the world would think that this is the exact 
right thing law enforcement should do. 
This is not this case. There was no violence. There 
was no coercion. There was no intimidation. There is no 
deception. The bottom line, if you take a fair look at the 
facts of this case as alleged and in the record, you may come 
to the conclusion there was prostitution involved and maybe a 
lot of it, but that doesn't mean that the person involved is 
pedophile, a rapist or, heaven knows, a trafficker. Just --
THE COURT: Well, if the women involved were under 18, 
isn't that rape? 
MR. WEINGARTEN: My understanding --
THE COURT: Legally they are incapable of consent, are 
they not? 
MR. WEINGARTEN: Well, it could be statutory rape. 
But what I am talking about is trafficking and why the 
statute was passed, and obviously the statute was passed to 
protect women from the horrors that occur in such settings, and 
that is light years removed to what happened in this case. 
So what about bond? I would suggest that the 
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traditional issues that we look at, the issues involved, let's 
start with that, we believe we have extremely powerful motions 
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relating to the government seeking two bites at the apple and 
for due process reasons, double jeopardy reasons, we don't 
think that will stand. We also think fundamentally what's at 
issue here is not trafficking. That's not why the statute was 
passed. 
The risk to others, what we have here is at least ten 
years post incarceration in the State of Florida of conduct 
that has never been challenged by anyone until now. The 
registration requirements are onerous. He is under constant 
surveillance. Law enforcement knows, if they choose to look, 
exactly where he is at any time. 
The risk of flight, what is true is from the moment of 
Judge Marra's litigation in the Southern District of Florida, 
the defendant knew that there would be challenges to the NPA. 
From 2013 on, there were representations made in court that 
that challenge was ongoing, and the defendant never sought to 
flee, never anticipated a time when he would flee, continued to 
live his law-abiding life. So the risk of flight, I think, is 
dramatically overstated in the government's presentation. 
I think the traditional remedies that the court finds 
appropriate in case after case -- a large cash bond; passport 
relinquished; waiving extradition; a bracelet on; some form of 
supervision that is adequate to guarantee his appearance, it 
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will be child's play to find that; bonds from other people, 
surety bonds from other people. 
Because we have not had an opportunity to see our 
client until today and because we have just received the 
government's submission, what we would like to do is have the 
opportunity to sit down and put together a bail package, a 
coherent bail package in writing and provide it to the court. 
I would point out on the obstruction allegation 
THE COURT: Let me ask you this -- sorry to interrupt 
you -- do you want to adjourn the detention hearing? Under the 
statute, you have up to three days. 
MR. WEINGARTEN: What I would like is to have until 
the end of the week to provide something in writing, a specific 
recommendation in writing. 
THE COURT: So you want to adjourn a determination of 
bail? 
MR. WEINGARTEN: Yes. 
THE COURT: Is there any objection to that from the 
government? The defendant is detained in the interim under 
3142(f). 
MR. WEINGARTEN: Right. 
MR. 
: Your Honor, we certainly don't object 
if the defendant is consenting to detention with leave to make 
a further application. 
I think the government would like at least a brief 
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opportunity to respond to some of those points, to the extent 
that the defense is arguing that Mr. Epstein should be granted 
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bail as a general matter and the court is going to consider 
those arguments. 
THE COURT: Well, the court always considers the 
parties' arguments. 
But let me just come back to Mr. Weingarten for a 
minute. Mr. Weingarten, under the Bail Reform Act you are 
entitled to a continuance of three days, which I guess would 
take us to Thursday. 
MR. WEINGARTEN: Right. 
THE COURT: The other alternative, I guess, if you 
want to de facto extend that three days is consent to detention 
without prejudice. 
MR. WEINGARTEN: We estimated that by Thursday we 
could get you something in writing and then appear back before 
you at your convenience. 
THE COURT: Okay. Do you want to schedule it -- well, 
I think Thursday's proceedings right now would be in front of 
Judge Berman unless he wants to send it back to me for bail, 
but do you want to put this down for detention hearing on 
Thursday? 
MR. WEINGARTEN: Can I make one point that I don't 
want to forget that I think is extremely important? 
THE COURT: Go ahead. 
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. 
EFTA00079723